Alternative energies future?

[mobile_bob]

guys, i don't know if you folks frequent utterpower.com
but George has been doing some investigative work  into how our tax dollars are being spent
on Alternative Energy schemes.

we all heard about the solindra debacle and the electric car problem
now it seems we have another that is likely to come unraveled

check it out here

http://www.utterpower.com/nrels-amonix-pages/

for some reason the press isn't touching it, no one is asking the hard questions, save or George

the problem i see with this government picked winners or rather picked loosers (frequently) is in the end
it damages the Alternative energy industry.

tax payers loose millions if not billions, 401k's get hit, and the result is a public that finally wakes up and over reacts
not wanting anything ever to do with AE again!

we have seen this play out before, back in the 70's when every joker in the world built all manner of AE stuff, made huge
claims that of course didn't pan out, and the result was the public revolted against the whole mess....the problem then became
a lot of very good people and companies that were building good products couldn't sell their products and we all lost out.

once the jig is up, there will be no money for good projects, and all of this will be seen as only so much snake oil by an ill informed
public, which of course elect folks that are often even less informed.

what do you guys think?
i want to know how you guys feel about this sort of thing? i am thinking we ought to be involved on some level in the discussion
and asking some questions.  we all know how hard it is for us to get anywhere with the epa, why should these guys have a clear pass
and not at least have to answer a few questions?

thoughts?

bob g

[Frank S]

Bob I really hate to start posting my thoughts here about how I feel the A/E or RE industry is heading.
Also I hesitate to even contemplate or voice my opinion of how this and many other administrations have taken the citizens of the US on a snip hunt for so many years.
All I will comment on the subject because I detest politics and most forms of government in general is to make sure anyone who can legally vote this Nov does so but with an educated view of the real world not what is being shoved down their throats by spin doctors and agenda mongers
A means of utilizing alt energy or RE has been around for a lot longer than the knowledge of how to pillage the planet of fossil fuels.
TO any admin , Moderator  or reader please do not read into my thoughts I do not wish to get into a contest of a political agenda trolling, everyone will lose on that but me, and I would ultimately be banned LOL

[mobile_bob]

no problem Frank
while i am right leaning, a bit right of atilla the hun, i fully recognize it is not just this administration, but
has roots going back to my guys administration too.

that being said, i don't care who is responsible, its just time to ask some hard questions and expect some answers!
and if after the election the administration is out on their collective cans,,then i expect the new administration to step up
and answer these questions

we need to hold their feet to the fire!

if i buy a 5kwatt set of panels and in full sun they never do better than 4kwatts, i am damn sure gonna have questions, as i am sure
everyone here would...

why is it any different when it comes to tax dollars buying 5mwatt systems?  if they only deliver 4 mwatt max. shouldn't we have questions?

when do we get to ask? when the system fails and the company responsible files for bankruptcy?

a little late then?

bob g

[Frank S]

In a lot of ways this administration reminds me of the Truman era very weak on domestic & foreign affairs. pushed the formation of the UN & Nato weakened the US military. supported big labor unions, against entrepreneurial business practices hugely popular at first by many ill informed. Huge EGO in his first few months his popularity was very high because of ending the Pacific front of WWII but by 46 had seized control of the Railroads had no viable post war plan to rebuild the economy. By 61 had gutted the military to the point it could not even adequately  defend the pacific rim, hence the Korean conflict. Spent more money rebuilding Europe & Japan than the US infrastructure
All of the things going on today with companies not producing quality merchandise can be directly dated all the way back to Truman
We got some reprieve for a while with Eisenhower #34 but his policies did little to stem the brain drain on America   this is why by 1961 we were starting to see more and more item from the East coast of Asia Eisenhower dropped the ball by not finishing Korea to a decisive victory ending in a draw. Then the first of the real playboys arrive in the white house Egotistical & paranoid schizophrenic nearly plunges the world into WWIII
but somehow manages to focus on  something Eisenhower had started but escalates it into an all out race to space Probably the only truly  productive things he did for the USA.
  Now comes Johnston he loves rubber plantations in S.E. Asia what does he give us? try starting something that would give us over 58,000 dead service personnel for nothing.
IN comes Nixon actually probably underneath his exterior a pretty decent guy who inherited a can of worms  and with bad advisers made some very wrong decisions. HE does try to end the  embargo of oil caused long lines at the pumps all the while tankers are sitting fully loaded in the harbors
Remember all during these years nothing is being done to build up the US educational system or to promote quality recognition Just the opposite for by now it is becoming more about the bottom line and the American consumer is growing accustomed to the idea of replace rather than repair Just huck it in the rubbish bin when it fails.
Now MR Ford what does he do for the nation? well he ends an unpopular conflict at a total loss none of these guys so far have had the intestinal fortitude to finish what has been thrust upon them, , and IT does not stop there.
For we get a peanut farmer from Georgia who is so weak he gives away the most valuable trade route to the USA we are now once again in a post war era with no plan to stem growth of the economy what does he do why raise taxes increase government size & spending brings on double digit inflation.
  Eventually along comes of all things an ex Hollywood actor And what did he Do well for starts cost me and a partner $2 million in oilfield equipment contracts. Got out people out of Iran,  bailed out Chrysler to the tune of a few million dollars turned the rate of inflation on its heals lowered taxes then raised them again.Backed Briton in the Falklands, despite the fact that the defecate had grown to 220 billion Dollars, in the end had done more for the USA than 5 of the previous  chair sitters.
Next is MR Bush 1 A former CIA administrator receives a call for help from a country many had never even heard of. Drop everything boys & girls we are going to war it takes a few months to build up and plan the logistics but the war after it starts last only 100 hours. He  reauthorized the Clean Air Act, requiring cleaner burning fuels which should have been an open door for renewable energy companies to flourish but this was not to be.
the remaining 3 are just too depressing to comment on especially the person who has supposed to have been sitting in that chair for the past 3 years but has been on a perpetual campaign trail. He reminds me of trying to design an over-unity machine, no matter how much money you throw at it you will never get out as much energy as it takes to run it. However this administration may turn out to be a blessing in disguise the cost of everything has gone through the roof the alternate energy companies that were shaky to begin with will all fail.
opening up a void for small tight nit open minded research directed companies will sprout up within the next few years with advances in technologies bringing the cost of RE and alternate  forms of energies within the realm of practicality. I can actually see this happening on a global scale due t othe world's economy       

[mobile_bob]

i really didn't want to make this thing a political discussion, because i really feel this thing happens no matter who is at the helm

besides its probably not reasonable to expect the president to have the technical experience to properly evaluate any of this
that is why they appoint folks that do have the expertise

what i am piss off about is the lack of attention in the press, they are the ones that are supposed to keep an eye on things, and report to us
aren't they?

otherwise what are they for?  weather reports?

this thing with Amonix is another seriously flawed scheme that is being replicated over and over again, and will continue to do so until someone takes a  good hard look at the figures.

bob g

[Tom Reed]

Ok back, sort of, to the subject at hand. I have lived with a 3.4 kw solar array to power my home for 4 years now. I have seen power out of the array that exceeds the rating by a fair amount. The best I've seen is just over 100 amps going into the batteries on my 48vdc system. The batteries were at 53 volts at the time so that would be around 5.3 kw! Of course that was on a morning that was 28 deg f and the sun was peeking through a hole in the clouds that gives an edge effect. We have to remember that the panels are rated at STC which are 70 deg f, and the vast majority of the time the temp of the panels is over 100f. This makes a large difference in their output voltage and Maximum Power Point.

[Frank S]

almost all of if not all of the news medias are bought and paid for in my opinion  Like you mentioned these schemes are not being covered by any of the main stream or for the most parts the side stream medias.
there has not been any accountability of the press to report or investigate the truth or validity of news sources for many years.
until the poor hapless consumers wake up to the fact that they are being taken for a ride over the cliff or shoddy merchandising doom by corporations only out for the fast buck and when their coffers are full the CEOs& CFOs plus all of the other door mounted names have their pockets full of as much money as they think they can get away with the companies are placed in bankruptcy or bought up by holding corps to be broken up and sold off leaving the consumers holding onto junk that has failed or will fail before they even make the final paymenton the stuff.
only the DIYs have a halfway modest chance of surviving shoddy merchandise  


Amonix, Inc. is a privately-held clean technology company that specializes in the design and manufacture of concentrated photovoltaic (CPV) solar power systems for low cost utility-scale deployment. CPV is one of the most efficient, cheap, scalable, and environmentally friendly solar solutions and global deployment is projected to grow approximately 445% from 2012 to 2015, displacing alternative solar technologies. Amonix has achieved industry-low deployment costs.

The company's operations mainly focus on southwestern states of the US. Founded in 1989 by Brian Robertson, Vahan Garboushian, and Guy Blanchard, Amonix is headquartered in Seal Beach, California.
Nov. 2007   The Goldman Sachs Group   A   Investment Banking Firm
Nov. 2007   MissionPoint Capital Partners   A   Private Equity
http://www1.eere.energy.gov/solar/pdfs/fy08_annual_report_43987.pdf

[deeiche]

Amonix sure sounds a lot like EMCORE Concentrator Photovoltaic Arrays .  They are located less than a mile from my place of work, right outside KAFB.

[LowGear]

otherwise what are they for?  weather reports?

Corporate profits.

[Ronmar]

Looks like George put up some fresh info this weekend...

[mobile_bob]

yes good old George is giving the hell, someone needs to in my opinion.

seems while the public's attention is focused on a myriad of other problems in this country, there is no one left to mind the store.

this amonix thing is just another example of our government out of touch or rather out of control.

just glad we have utterpower.com taking a hard look at Amonix at a time that none of the news networks seems to care.

bob g