Rudolf Diesel Born March 18, 1858.

[injin man]

Steve,

Somewhere around page 66 is a reference to Kruppp owning a process for 'coal gas'
or as some would say Syn Gas/ producer gas, they were talking about using it in
Diesels engine. Isn't it odd that we as a society are making a 360 deg loop back 100
years to 'invent' new fuels?

Ben

[LowGear]

Sorry but I can't resist.

"Back to the Future"

The really interesting part is that we and Canada have vast coal deposits.  I wonder if coal gas is cleaner, :~) yah you betcha, or easier to make than the crude many want to pipe across the US?

Casey

[cognos]

On Second thought, I have nothing to add to this thread.

[injin man]

I know a bit about "Synthetic Crude" processes, and have had some experience with "coal gas" as an industrial fuel, exclusively in steel mills, as part of the coking process.

Synthetic crude production is clean and efficient compared to the industrial production of coal gas... both have byproduct issues, but I'll take the syncrude any day, and the conventional fuels it's used to produce.

I have had some experience with site remediation of old coal gas production plants, where the gas was produced for illumination and heating in an urban setting. Some horrific pollution that persists more than 100 years later, in some cases.

Depending on the process, coal gas is usually mostly hydrogen and carbon monoxide. Both are hard to compress and store, and have a low calorific value, compared to "natural" or "Synthetic" gas.

So - poisonous, sulphurous, difficult to store - not an ideal fuel for the future.

But I'm sure many engines could be modified - or primarily designed - to use coal gas as a fuel. It burns...

Then again, one could modify/design an engine to run on synthetic crude, probably with similar effort.

My plan would include 'wood gas' as opposed to 'coal gas' and use the resultant flame to fire a
large monotube boiler similar to the one in a Doble Steam Car, also the drive train in the
Doble would be ideal for running a power plant.

What can you share with us about Catalysts for synthesizing fuels from gas?

[Apogee]

Cognos,

I'm curious how high is the pressure required?

What about the temp?

Just curious...

Thanks,

Steve

[injin man]

This is more what I had in mind:

Fischer-Tropsch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFtrhz47K3Y&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL3FA031547E05162D

[cognos]

Those folks in the video sure look smart to me. I'd do what they say.

[injin man]

Everything but getting a check from the Government is dangerous.

[vdubnut62]

Everything but getting a check from the Government is dangerous.

That is the most dangerous of all......
Ron

[injin man]

Diesel had the first engine explode at least 2 times.

BTW, the people in the video make/sell the GEK Gasifier Kits, I'm certain
they're just as dangerous? You as a 'Professional' couldn't suggest
that 'people' could actually use a 100 year old process to make their
own fuel and survive beyond the bounds and the grip of an overreaching
dictatorial government.

[cognos]

Looks good to me. Go for it.

[SteveU.]

Well said Mr Cognos.
Most of the successful modern era ENGINE RUNNING woodgas men: Mike LaRosa, Wayne Keith, Dutch John, Ron Lemer, Vesa Mikkonen, Stigg-Eric Werner, Fredrick Ok, Greg Manning, Johan Liddel, AndyS., ME and on and on up to the newest Chris Seanz all say why take something so relatively easy and safe with very low pressures involved and just a minor "woof" "poof" possibility and make it so bloody dam@ difficult,  and "Ka-B-O-O-M!!!" dangerous?

Ah yes Future Fuelers. I have been involve with a couple of those now.
Yep actually even let myself be conned ONCE in to compressing generated woodgas to 300 psi and running past a catalyst bed. No reaction of course with a cold catalyst. Next step was to heat the catalyst chamber. Nope. Not me. Ainta'gonna do it. Walked away from that one and the project went on the shelf.
I am the one half deaf from battery KaBOOMs, acid sprayed and sliced from flying plastic case shrapnel. I have the Indstutrial flash burn scars and been de-mustached and de-eyebrowed just once learning the value hot sweaty full worst case scenario PPE. Thank God I wear prescription glasses.

So you fellas wanting to do this listen to the guys been there, seen it, smelled it.
Burning flesh smells burns into your memory down to the cell level.
Bare hand stanching arterial pumping blood then undershirts wrapping kinnda sticks with you too. Learn to wear dark shirts. Less shock trauma then doing it.
Getting puking sick on CO poisoning, numb fingered from chemicals and heavy metals toxisity build up part of the package too.
I've never been to war. This is just all part and parcel of alt-energy enthusiasm at the DOing level.
Ha! Ha! Best unexpected I've seen was gas/arc torch welding work next to a safe, safe inert refrigerant line. Instant frost bite flash burns and put you on the ground in respiratory arrest from the refrigerent spray passing through the open combustion source. Not me. I still have do have a cough from the run in, pull'em out and torch head kick out rescue.
Then if you are really enthusiastic and do this for a few decades have your own personal list of those dead and gone. "Common sense" wants to say they were "Sto-opid", "Ca-areless", "In-n-attentive". Yep some of that. But . . . deal with high pressures, compressed combustable gasses and high temperatures long enough and your best of luck and even preparation is gonna run out.
Apollo 13.
The every 5-8 year refinery explosions and fires up in Anacordes, WA in my home state at the refinery complex cost them millions and lives I an sure they really try to prevent.

So when an old grey hair here says on these DYI videos: "Amateurs", "Where is their PPE!!??" We speak from cell level burned in experience.

GEK owner Steve Unruh

[BruceM]

Thanks Steve, and Cognos, for raising my awareness of the serious hazards involved when messing with heat, pressure, and combustible fuels/oils.  It is a serious business.

[injin man]

Nothing ventured nothing gained. You can certainly make the argument
that the average idiot will try lots of stuff in his garage and level it but
that's not me. I live in a city with the largest industrial chemical production
in the country and have more friends who are process engineers than I can
count and would certainly consult their expertise before venturing in knee
deep into GTL or any other process.

Steam is another area that as soon as it's mentioned is DANGEROUS and
all the usual 'experts' rush out from the garage to warn you about the
DANGER without ever knowing what your background is, so.............
back to the Diesel engine story.

[SteveU.]

Fare thee well . . . Mr Ben?

Steam is bloody dangerous. 200 years of deployed usage with countless experiences document this.
Most things we do in life that are interesting and productive are dangerous. No reason not to pursue them. Good reason to aqaint yourself with the hazards and prepare for the worst so when it does inevitably happen it is just an exciting story.

As an Auto/Tech/Mech post 2000 it became common to have to gasoline fuel tank drop for in tank fuelpump and pickup filter change outs. Us Wise learned to copper and brass tool use do this with dry cell battery LED drop-able lights. STILL some dumb ass inattentive stupid clear across the shop would once, twice a year start grinding or sneek a smoke just outside a door. Grey haired old and been there I always kept a $121 personal Halon extinguisher on my rollaway in hands reach. And at foot, if I was the tank dropper. No biggy to stand on a pool of flaming gasoline IF you can stand your ground, get it out quickly, cooly and be wearing cotton, leather and/or 50/50 poly blend. Halon, not even the PITA white powdery mess extinguisher mess to clean up. Could even get 2-3 usages per annual recharge if careful. I used it more for others than myself. Always the new guy would be very apologetic. And Never do it again, or we would GONE him outta' there most unpleasantly.
I'd know two life long "Crispies" fellows with limb loss and constant drools from the facial burn scars around thier mouths and had their shops burn down as complete losses just from sending unit replacing due to dropped steel tools and drop cord safety lights that ain't. The 200 mile per gallon gasoline vapor fella in town just KaBoom flash burnt died. He might have been OK sticking to hot water coolant heating. Exhaust and DC electric heating added the ignition source with ANY crack, pinhole or burn through.

The fella' had me 300PSI compressing his woodgas after my insistence to air pressurizing/soap bubble testing his apparatus (needed re-TIG-ing for two pinholes) wouldn't even allow me the courtisy of a 1/2 plate steel safety shield. "You no need nothing" "Whatcha'? Chicken?" "Here plywood 'aught to be good enough" Just be more shrapnel. Wasn't like i was asking for a Nomex/Kevlar blanket.

Maybe OK you want slice, dice, burn or decapitate yourself. Your choice. I do begrudge supporting your dependents. AND IT IS THE HIEGHT OF IRRESPONSIBILITY TO ADVOCATE AND ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO THIS and NOT stress the hazards and means to minimize there consequenses. "Old Pilots and Bold Pilots"

Good day and good luck to you and your's Sir.
"Old Pilot" Steve Unruh