Changfa cooling system

[pekkap]

Hello again.

I have been working on changfa ZS1105GMN engine in my excavator project. Now i have been thinking to put varming system inside cabin. And warm coolant should come from engine. I just wonder should i get water pump for that, or does coolant move about 40 inch to other radiator with changfas own system? I have not yet studiet too much cooling system on this engine, so any comments are very welcome.

I am a cheapskate and trying to convince myself that pump is not necessary... 

[LowGear]

Brother Cheapskate,

A couple of photos would be interesting.  I haven't got any idea about your question but I'd still like to see the application.

Good Luck,

Casey

[Ronmar]

Thermosiphon does not move fluid very well horizontally.  It is powered by gravity and needs vertical path to make use of the density changes from heating and cooling.

First guess would be that a pump is required, but if you post some pics that show the actual location of engine amd heater core, we will be able to make a more informed recomendation...

[LowGear]

You know if you had a water pump you could also have a heated seat.  Who would dare sneer at your creation then?

Photos?

Casey

[admin]

my s195 which is somewhat smaller in displacement than your engine, however i bet it would work just as well...

i installed a bosch auxiliary water heater pump from a VW, (audi, porshe, mercedes also use the same pump)

i removed the hopper cooling system, installed a block off plate, and installed a tstat housing from a small honda
4 banger because it was handy/cheap and had all the needed ports for a bypass and a temp sender.

also installed a small nissan sentra radiator with the thermostatically controlled electric fan

use a 7 lb rad cap, however the changfa can handle a 10lb cap no problem.

water flow is as follows

from the lower hose of the radiator which i capped the radiator has another 1/2" water port in the side of the lower hose pipe
from that 1/2 inch port i feed the bosch pump, the pump feeds water to the drain port on the lower part of the cylinder block
simply remove the petcock and install a 45 street elbow and a hose barb (this will clear the flywheel)..

i drilled an eighth inch bypass hole in the T state plate so that some of the pump pressure can bleed through, this does two things
it bleeds out all air trapped, it lowers the head pressure seen by the pump, and i guess one more thing it presents ever warmer water to
the T stat bulb assuring proper function.

when the stat opens it allows water to flow back to the radiator where the process repeats of course.

the Tstat is a 195 degree F unit, the fan temp switch which is mounted in the bottom of the radiator allows the fan to come on at around 210 degree's F and shut off at around 205 degree's F.   therefore the Tstat does not normally cycle after the engine is up to full operating temp, it simply stay  open and the fan controls the engine temp as it should.

this system works to 8kwe output, and i have no doubt the pump could cover twice this amount of load, which should be ample for your engine.

the pump draws something around 50 watts if i recall, not much really.

i have it set to run any time the engine is running, and when under micro controller control it will be started before the engine, and continue to run after the engine is shut down until the engine drops below the 205 degree F temp threshold of the fan stat, (actually  i will program it to run another couple minutes after the fan stops to assure that the heat soak is covered and the fan can dissipate the heat if need be.

these are neat little pumps, very robust and seem to run forever.

i got 3 or 4 from a pic a part yard out in tacoma for about 7 bucks each, the one i use seeped a bit at the shaft seal for about an hour, until it had flushed out all the stop leak the old car had it in for a leaky radiator or some other issue.

personally i would not suggest or use a belt driven pump for cooling these engine's, the pump would need to be quite small and likely dear in price compared to even a new bosch electric pump.  i don't like any more belt parasitic loads than necessary, and i like the ability to continue the pump after the engine has been shut down if need be (something a belt drive can't do generally).

lastly if i recall correctly, the bosch pump will move about 4 or 5 gallons per minute at zero head, there is really no way an engine of less than
probably 30hp (and likely more) can make more hot water than can be removed at that flow rate.

a half inch supply line from the pump to the engine might seem too small, however consider that cummins with their reverse flow/low flow system could adequately cool a 14 liter 350hp engine in a class 8 truck using 1 inch upper and lower hoses and a much small pump than they
formerly used.  i don't remember for sure, but i don't think that pump moved much over 25 gallons per minute at full throttle.

bob g

[pekkap]

Thank you for many answers, especially bob g. Electric pump sure would be nice and if changfas radiator is removed, there could be good spot for altenator. That has been one idea. More ideas is merrier.

Two photos attached from august. I do not have better at the moment. It is excavators first run and so there are few oil leaks on the ground... Cabin is not yet build because there are still many many other improvements going on. But by the winter some kind heating system should be build.

Perhaps easiest way could be that just simply make hole and 10 inch pipe behind seat to cabin. But if radiator is moved or other added just wondering how coolant moves.. If there is no pump. At photo i draw like a child few lines that should show how long way coolant goes. X marks radiators planned place.

[Ronmar]

Thats pretty neat...  It looks as if the Changfa radiator blower exhaust is pointing right at the back of the seat...  It looks like a little duct work could be added to just duct the warm radiator exhaust air into the cab... An Air conditioning/heating "Y" duct with a flapper plate might fit the bill here, as the air must go somewhere, and up and out of the engine compartment would be good.  The "Y" duct could be adjusted to send whatever volume of warm air to the cab that you desire...
 

[LowGear]

So far that's one "pretty neat" and one "WOW! What a neat friggin project."  I think the ducted airflow has real merit too. 

Casey

[rl71459]

I like it!

Nice Work, Very creative.

[rcavictim]

You could make a nice little mobile VAWT out of that! 

[pekkap]

  Many thanks.

At beginning idea was to put engine in that position for airflow and 170kg counterweight. Y idea is good, if i understand right. My english has rusted a bit by years. Most likely airflow would be enought to run through cabin? 10" -> 2 x 5" and 2-3 place for air to come out with flaps and other Y side for air to go out if cabin does not need warm air? That could work and would be easiest, and i guess there is a lot flow actually..

And... that way X marked spot could be used later for aircondition. 

So your opinion is pretty much that there is no idea to move coolant, just move air? Actually is sounds better and riskless. And more thinking even better. Just ordered new radiator, old one had frozen at last owner.. Leaks a bit. Long stories.

By the way it could be needed as mobile powersource... If i dig up my own cables.

Hmm.. Should i go plumbers to buy PVC pipes and Y piece?

[akghound]

Pekkap ....Where. do you live?

[pekkap]

finland.

[Ronmar]

I find drawings usually overcome language barriers.  For materials I would NOT use plastic/PVC.  I would use sheetmetal ductwork. look to heating and fireplace suppliers for off the shelf parts.  The flapper plate section would be easiest if it was square.  If I were doing it, I would probably build it myself.

It should be plenty of airflow for the cabin, and plenty of heat also, just make sure the radiator supply air is from outside the engine compartment, and the engine exhaust is directed down and away from the engine compartment so you don't get any exhaust fumes pumped into the cab.

Here is what I was thinking

[pekkap]

Good points. Exhaust fumes were one thing why i planned moving radiator, but it is just the way you said. Well, there is no rush with this so i have time to look for parts to correct duct (not duck as i at first thought...). Or make the whole thing myself as all other things... 

Good drawing. It makes all look clear as glass. Better make it that way. Flap position is great. I would have used 2 instead of 1.But in that place only 1 is needed.

Many thanks.