leaving listeroid unattended

[BruceM]

My Lister-Picaxe board is a hand wired perfboard prototype, no PCB, sorry.  Scanned, hand drawn schematics have been posted here, if you send me your email address I can email it direct.  I don't use "development boards"- the Picaxe chips require no support chips so I can't see the point.  I use solderless breadboard(s)  for both programming via serial and for initial simulation/debug.

I used the Cherry gear tooth sensor for the flywheel spoke sensor.  These are available through Digikey, I think.

For vibration sensor, I used a Murphy unit which I found on ebay cheap.

Head temperature sensor is an adjustable snap disk unit glued with steel filled epoxy to the cylinder head.  I got this unit from Grainger.com.

Oil level sensors used reed relays and a magnet in a float, in a sight tube.  It's been posted on this forum.  Let me know if you can't find it.  The reed relays were from Digikey.

Good luck on your project,  if you'll post about it in the automation section, I'll be glad to lend a hand if you need it and other guys can learn from your project. 

Best Wishes,
Bruce M

[rbodell]

I now have about 100 hours on my listeroid/ST-5 generator.  How long have others had their systems running before being comfortable going out to the store for a half hour, and leaving things running in their absence?  It still feels like I'll be leaving a young child alone in the house.

I don't leave home with mine running. I don't have a reason to, I only charge batteries. I personally don't think it is a good idea to leave any piece of machinery running unattended. You never know when the thermostat could stick or some kid could come into the engine room. As for reliability though, yiou can't get much better. 24/7 for 20 years says a lot. I think if I was going to run it 24/7 I would remove the thermostat though.

At home I find it hard not to go check on it when I pass the shed or at least every hour or two and I have a video camera on the gages and engine connected to my TV so I can check it while I am in the house. I love to watch it run.

I had thought about an auto shutdown for temperature but the more gadgets, the more there is to break. It would take a pretty bad leak to leak 20 gallons of coolant in a couple of hours.

[Tom Reed]

I'll leave for up to a couple of hours with the 'roid running. There is now about 1000 hours on her and there have not been any problems during running. Having a proper concrete block mounting does set the mind at ease that it will be where you left it when you return. The under ground exhaust system helps for ease if mind too. 

[XYZER]

I left mine running unattended for a week running 24/7 about 3/4 of a mile from the house. I had a clamp on lamp pluged in so I could see if it was running at night. I would run down and fill the 4 gallon tank before I left for work and top it off when I returned. I might not do the unattended thing if it was in a building next to the house. It just sat and did it's thing. I had no emergency shutdown system in place.....just crossed my fingers!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9194771268947755783#

[akghound]

Don't worry about leaving it unattended. It will quit running when it breaks down. 
Wonder how I know??? Heck, it quits running even if you are there when it breaks down!
Ken Gardner

[vdubnut62]

[/quote]

I think if I was going to run it 24/7 I would remove the thermostat though.


[/quote]

Somebody tell me just what IS the deal with thermostats? I have 2 Toyotas and a Dodge with a Cummins.
The Toyota truck refused to have a consistent engine temp, even after several thermostat  and temp sending unit changes until we blew a hose and warped the head. Put a used head on it and now it's stable as a rock.
My dodge has been a pain from day one. It has NEVER held a stable temp. When the tstat opens the temp goes from 190 to 120-140
depending on ambient temp, and it drops QUICK. Worries me about thermal shock, especially since I have replaced the engine already due to pumping oil into the cooling system. I suspected an internal crack somewhere we couldn't find.
Now my wife's Toyota is rock solid on operating temp. It has over 200k miles and besides oil changes, has had the serpentine belt replaced, that is it.
Is there that much difference in t-stats??

[rbodell]

I think if I was going to run it 24/7 I would remove the thermostat though.


[/quote]

Somebody tell me just what IS the deal with thermostats? I have 2 Toyotas and a Dodge with a Cummins.
The Toyota truck refused to have a consistent engine temp, even after several thermostat  and temp sending unit changes until we blew a hose and warped the head. Put a used head on it and now it's stable as a rock.
My dodge has been a pain from day one. It has NEVER held a stable temp. When the tstat opens the temp goes from 190 to 120-140
depending on ambient temp, and it drops QUICK. Worries me about thermal shock, especially since I have replaced the engine already due to pumping oil into the cooling system. I suspected an internal crack somewhere we couldn't find.
Now my wife's Toyota is rock solid on operating temp. It has over 200k miles and besides oil changes, has had the serpentine belt replaced, that is it.
Is there that much difference in t-stats??

[/quote]

Well, those problems were obviously not the thermostat.

The thermostat helps the engine to warm up faster making for less wear from tight bearings and parts. It also keeps the engine at optimal operating temperature. What it doesn't do is keep the engine from over heating due to a cracked head. In a car it also keeps the engine cooling system hot enough to make the heater work. In some instances, in a car without a thermostat, the water might pass through the radiator so fast that it may not cool it efficiently and actually causing it to run hotter if you remove the thermostat.

most Roids are designed to run without a thermostat, that is why you have to make it an after market item. They are also meant to be run 24/7 or at least long periods of time so there is not multiple heating and cooling sessions. 

I put a thermostat in mine because I run ti a few hours a day on a cooling drum. It would take 3 or 4 hours to get up to operating temperature causing unnecessary wear on the bearings, valve seats and guides. IF I was to leave it unattended for a long time I would remove the thermostat to avoid it sticking closed and overheating the engine. 

I am a firm believer in the KISS (keep it simple stupid) factor. The more gadgets there are to break, the more will break. The reason these engines are so reliable is that there is very little to break and as somebody else said here, It will stop when something breaks whether you are gone or standing next to it.

[mobile_bob]

not to be argumentative, but

how many t stat failures have you guys had or heard about with these engines?

in the last 45 years of driving and over 1.5 million miles using dozens of vehicles, i personally have had exactly one t stat failure
that resulted in an overheated engine, and that tstat was in a very poorly maintained cooling system on a very old car with over
240k miles  on it.

the improvement in longevity by using a t/stat is certainly a significant factor, but one should also keep in mind
that the efficiency of the engine and the emissions are dramatically improved with the use of the t/stat and a stable
temperature in the 195 degree range.

personally i don't think it is responsible to design an engine driven genset without the use of a t/stat, we should all be working
on trying where we can to promote the clean operation of these engines.

again my opinion only, however we ought to keep in mind that we are working with these engines at a time where the epa is getting
more direct on oversight of all engine's, and the use of a tstat should be encouraged not discouraged.

i really think a t/stat failure is way down on the list of possible items that might fail, and they are so cheap that perhaps if one is concerned
he might put the tstat on the annual or biannual replacement list as part of a major service.

bob g

[rcavictim]

I have seen thermostat housings for some truck gas engines that held two thermoststs operating them in parallel.  If one gets a frozen closed failure the other will still do the job.  This could be implemented on some of our genset engines here.

[JohnF]

Vdubnut;

You mention a cummins engine with an "unknown" crack.  Did you ever find it?  I'm going through the same thing now with a '97, 230,000 kms (nothing for the so-called "rock solid" cummins engine) yet I have a crack "somewhere" that is allowing coolant and oil mixing.  Changed the head gasket, tested the oil cooler, cannot see any external reason for the mixing.  I'm beginning to suspect this is a reasonably common failure in these engines, but I can't get any info on it from Cummins themselves.

[XYZER]

I believe there was a serial # range of cummins 6bt's that had this mystery crack. It was in the early years. I have run several Dodge/cummins and have not experienced the described thermostat problems always dead steady! I didn't own any of the crack engines but I guess the #53 castings had issues 1999-2001 but they don't appear to leak water into the oil. http://www.locknstitch.com/5.9_cummins_cracked_block.htm
 

[vdubnut62]

The 53 series were some of the engines built in Brazil that the core shifted in when they were cast resulting in a thin spot in the water jacket.
They cracked to the outside causing coolant loss. John F and I have a different problem, causing oil to get into the cooling system, but never getting coolant into the oil
I have run into this more than once, by talking to a few mechanics around here, I suspect a problem kind of like the one with the dowel pin that comes out and goes through the timing gears that Cummins would never admit to a problem with either. Yes, I had that happen too.
It' curious that both JohnF's and my truck are the same year and had very close to the same amount of miles on them when the problem manifested.
Coincidence?
Oh and I have changed the Tstat many times in the thing, never helped. It still does the same thing ,temp-wise even after the engine swap.

Ron

[Fat Charlie]

I've never had a thermostat failure with my cars, but I sell thermostats all the time at work- after they fail.

Bob's got the right idea.  As part of the annual or biannual servicing, drop in a new thermostat.  You're already working on it, and they're cheap.

[veggie]

They do fail.
The thermostat failed in both my cars within 2 years.
Both stuck open when they failed. Car would not warm up in winter.

Interesting...the aftermarket (non-Ford) thermostats have not failed since. 8 years later.

veggie

[vdubnut62]

IIRC an aftermarket thermostat is available, that if it does fail, it is designed to stick in the open position. Autozone sells then here I think.  I would assume that OEM has access to the same technology? It would make sense to me anyway, that Ford or any manufacturer would use it.
Then you would just be pissed that your car would not warm up, instead of being completely disabled.
I plan to run one in Walla Walla Xing Dong,  along with an old Nissan Sentra radiator.
Ron