3 stage battery charger

[WGB]

Anyone know of a good 3 stage battery charger that doesn't cost an arm and leg?
Thanks

[rcavictim]

Anyone know of a good 3 stage battery charger that doesn't cost an arm and leg?
Thanks

I also desire the answer to this question.

[Lloyd]

Some of the best 3 stage chargers to be had are the old Trace inverter chargers, they are usually easy to find, they last for almost ever, have tight control....Look in pick and pulls that deal with Motor homes, and used marine stores, craigs list/e-pay.

I see em all the timefor 200-300 dollars, next best is the xantrex freedom inverter charger also found in the same places, for about the same prices. Both of these units are Mod-Sine wave inverters...but if you're just using em for battery charging then no worries.

The reason so many are available is when the price of True sine came down many mod's were pulled and replaced with trues.

The same charger new as a stand alone charger is going to cost north of 1k with equal output/quality/control.

Now just don't let my secret out.

Lloyd

[WGB]

Some of the best 3 stage chargers to be had are the old Trace inverter chargers, they are usually easy to find, they last for almost ever, have tight control....Look in pick and pulls that deal with Motor homes, and used marine stores, craigs list/e-pay.

I see em all the timefor 200-300 dollars, next best is the xantrex freedom inverter charger also found in the same places, for about the same prices. Both of these units are Mod-Sine wave inverters...but if you're just using em for battery charging then no worries.

The reason so many are available is when the price of True sine came down many mod's were pulled and replaced with trues.

The same charger new as a stand alone charger is going to cost north of 1k with equal output/quality/control.

Now just don't let my secret out.



Lloyd

Thanks Lloyd, that crossed my mind.
Researching Outback and some others, showed like 10.7 volts minumum battery voltage to run the charge controller.
Is there a way around this?

[Lloyd]

Some of the best 3 stage chargers to be had are the old Trace inverter chargers, they are usually easy to find, they last for almost ever, have tight control....Look in pick and pulls that deal with Motor homes, and used marine stores, craigs list/e-pay.

I see em all the timefor 200-300 dollars, next best is the xantrex freedom inverter charger also found in the same places, for about the same prices. Both of these units are Mod-Sine wave inverters...but if you're just using em for battery charging then no worries.

The reason so many are available is when the price of True sine came down many mod's were pulled and replaced with trues.

The same charger new as a stand alone charger is going to cost north of 1k with equal output/quality/control.

Now just don't let my secret out.



Lloyd

Thanks Lloyd, that crossed my mind.
Researching Outback and some others, showed like 10.7 volts minumum battery voltage to run the charge controller.
Is there a way around this?

WGB,

I not sure, the 10.7 volt is the low voltage disconnect, many inverters have a programing mode which allows you to adjust the LVD. I haven't concerned myself with with trying to go lower then the factory default, I always adjust up, so as not to ruin the battery bank.

When in inverter mode, and  without the LVD it's possible that an inverter load would run until the bank was dead and keep on running until the battery bank was unrecoverable...I posted just such a topic under the name Outback Trap.

I'm not sure why the LVD of 10.7 would be an issue, when the intent of a 3-stage charger is to maintain the bat bank.

A second thought most inverter chargers are north of 80 amps dc in bulk charge, and if you hit a bank with that many amps right off the start, and the bank was 10.7 and below then you would generate so much heat it would burn the bat bank. The acceptance rate of a battery at a 10.7 resting voltage is very low, so when a bank is that far down, you need to hit it with a very low amp charge for at least 24 hrs.

What are your needs for such a low LVD?

Lloyd

[WGB]

Some of the best 3 stage chargers to be had are the old Trace inverter chargers, they are usually easy to find, they last for almost ever, have tight control....Look in pick and pulls that deal with Motor homes, and used marine stores, craigs list/e-pay.

I see em all the timefor 200-300 dollars, next best is the xantrex freedom inverter charger also found in the same places, for about the same prices. Both of these units are Mod-Sine wave inverters...but if you're just using em for battery charging then no worries.

The reason so many are available is when the price of True sine came down many mod's were pulled and replaced with trues.

The same charger new as a stand alone charger is going to cost north of 1k with equal output/quality/control.

Now just don't let my secret out.



Lloyd

Thanks Lloyd, that crossed my mind.
Researching Outback and some others, showed like 10.7 volts minumum battery voltage to run the charge controller.
Is there a way around this?

WGB,

I not sure, the 10.7 volt is the low voltage disconnect, many inverters have a programing mode which allows you to adjust the LVD. I haven't concerned myself with with trying to go lower then the factory default, I always adjust up, so as not to ruin the battery bank.

When in inverter mode, and  without the LVD it's possible that an inverter load would run until the bank was dead and keep on running until the battery bank was unrecoverable...I posted just such a topic under the name Outback Trap.

I'm not sure why the LVD of 10.7 would be an issue, when the intent of a 3-stage charger is to maintain the bat bank.

A second thought most inverter chargers are north of 80 amps dc in bulk charge, and if you hit a bank with that many amps right off the start, and the bank was 10.7 and below then you would generate so much heat it would burn the bat bank. The acceptance rate of a battery at a 10.7 resting voltage is very low, so when a bank is that far down, you need to hit it with a very low amp charge for at least 24 hrs.

What are your needs for such a low LVD?

Lloyd
[/quote



I'm working with old batteries, sometimes they are pretty low.
I've had some success with getting some good out of batteries that were as low as 1 volt per cell.
The junk chargers I've been using don't care what the voltage is, but looking to up grade to a better charger.
I still want to play with the junk batteries and also use a better charger.

Thanks

[WGB]

I ended up getting a Schumacher SC10030 smart charger for now.
It seems to do pretty well,I de-sulfated and resurrected one battery already!
I'm looking for an inverter charge too for the batteries.
Still looking for the Holy Grail.

[Tom Reed]

What kind of de-sulphator are you using? I'm a big fan of them and have resurrected a few batteries my self.

[WGB]

What kind of de-sulphator are you using? I'm a big fan of them and have resurrected a few batteries my self.

The charger has a de-sulfate mode it goes into as needed.
I think it is a pulse / equalize thing.
Also I have some chemical from Battery Chem I've not tried yet.

[Tom Reed]

If the chemical is EDTA (if I remember the acronym correctly) it is nasty stuff and will cause the plates to shed a lot of material and possibly short due to sediment build up on the bottom of the battery. If the battery is otherwise useless due to sulphation it is worth a shot though.

[mobile_bob]

at the risk of alienating folks here is my take on desulfators

they are a bunch of hype! and i wouldn't add anything like edta to any battery i cared about.

if you are working with old batteries that aren't responding to proper charging then use whatever you like, however
if you have a significant investment in your batteries charge them as the manufacture recommends, equalize as needed
and realize that batteries have a finite lifespan.

once they get down to about 80% capacity they are about at the end of life in most cases, as they go to hell in a non linear
fashion.

i realize there is lots of anecdotal evidence that edta and desulfators work, however there is precious little true scientific evidence
to support the use of either with a good battery.

charge them regularly and fully, keep them watered if flooded type, equalize them as needed, keep a log on every cell and list
the specific gravity of each cell.  doing so will give you a full life from the battery.

fwiw
bob g

[Lloyd]

For me the Jury is still out on high hz ripple machines.

Here are a couple of thoughts. When a bat bank is charged by an automotive style alternator, a high hz ripple already exists. The bat bank acts as a big capacitor bank smoothing out the hz ripples, so all dc loads don't mind the inherent ripple from a claw pole(also a claw pole has a bit of a square wave already by design...to smooth the ripple).

Now SWM chargers are so finely engineered to remove the ripple(that is the higher quality chargers and inverter/chargers) bc the power supply products were originally intended to be surrogate DC supplies. Me thinks that engineers that designed the SWM PS, were not all that in tune to battery charging, and as a result the bat charger side was a byproduct (not engineered to be a bat charger..but a DC Supply w/ benefits).

So my initial thoughts are, if the only charge source that the bat bank sees is a SWM PS type charge source, then a high hz ripple added to the regular charge regime, most likely won't hurt or do anything for a healthy bank, and might even elevate it to the quality of a claw pole charge source.

But as Bob said the jury is still out, bc I know of no study that asks and answer's these questions.

But since most of the brand name desulfators are less then $100.00 it might be worth a go. I really don't think they will harm a good healthy bank...unless that $100.00 dollars is a drain on your checking account.

Lloyd

[BioHazard]

I use a "Battery Minder" desulphator on any batteries that are going to sit for very long. I've had at least 3 batteries come back to a useable state that were otherwise garbage. I also have several cheap starting batteries in my vehicle collection, many of them just sit and rot, but most of them are 10+ years old and I give credit to the Battery Minder for that.

The jury may still be out, but I've seen it work, it's paid for itself easily by now, and it's never going to hurt the battery. If your battery is "dead" it's worth a try before throwing it out...

It is a fact that many, many, many batteries die from sulphation and poor maintainence, not because they've reached the end of their cycle life. You can't possibly save every battery with a desulphator, but it certainly is a fact that some have been saved with one.

Batteries are like small engines, they usually die of neglect, not simply just wear out...

[Lloyd]

Bio,

My favorite quote is  "batteries don't die, they're murdered"

Using a desulfator on a battery one at a time might work, but as Bob said there is yet to be an independent study other then yours that says they work, or others like your survey.

Now what about a bat bank.... most of the issues with a bat bank is trying to keep each cell in balance with it's sisters, now factor in that most banks, are made up of serialized and then paralleled multiple bats.( a bank is only as strong as the weakest sister).

The key to having a healthy bank is cell balance, again as Bob said, the only way to do that is by a proper management and charge regime. If that is done then most likely a desulfator is a waste of money... bc the bats aren't so much sulfated..as they are just aged... all bat sulfate even ones that well taken care of...that's how they age, it is a direct result of the chemistry of a lead anatomy battery.

Lloyd

[BioHazard]

I wouldn't think a desulphator would be good at all on an entire "bank" of batteries, I only use mine on a single batt at a time....but if one battery seems a little "off", I say a desulphator is worth a try. At least you're not risking anything....