Growing biodiesel

[Curbie]

Fuelfarmer,

"More confusing???" No I don't think so, canola along with a second soybean crop can yield 90 + 90 + 50 (gal) = 230 / two years = 115 (gal) average per year, as long as you only plant canola on the same acre once every four years (I think).

I like the sustainability of your setup, thanks for your time and help.

Curbie

[BioHazard]

Very interesting, seems like you farm a little bit of everything. I wish the US would focus more on growing oil crops than ethanol crops...

[billswan]

I wish the US would focus more on growing oil crops than ethanol crops...

Bio

I was always going to answer that on another thread but just never had the time and forgot about it.

Fuel farmer says he gets about 90 gallons of canola oil or 50 gallons of soy oil per acre.

In my area we can only have 1 crop per year because of a short season but corn yields about 180 bu to acre on average here and the ethanol plants run about 2.8 gallons per bushel that makes 504 gallons of ethanol per acre give or take.

Which is going to go farther if used in the appropriate engine?

Billswan

[Curbie]

Bio & Billswan,

Just some quick math on ethanol vs. Bio-diesel:

The rough math looks something like this:

Crop yields:
Oil crop yields (sunflower or conola @ ~42˚ latitude) ~100 gallons per acre per year.
Ethanol crop yields (sweet sorghum or Jerusalem Artichoke @ ~42˚ latitude) ~400 gallons per acre per year.

At 4 to 1 yield ratio it seems an easy choice, but next you need to account for
fuel value.

Bio-diesel 125,000 btu per gallon.
Ethanol 75,000 btu per gallon.

SVO 100 (gallons per acre) x 125,000 (btu per gallon) = 12.5 million btu/per
acre.
Ethanol 400 (gallons per acre) x 75,000 (btu per gallon) = 30 million btu/per
acre.

The gap narrows form 4 to 1 to 2.4 to 1 but still in favor of ethanol.

Next we need to account for production energy, any energy used in production
which is subtracted from the total.

Bio-diesel about 12,000 btu per gallon (screw press, Bio-diesel processing)
Ethanol about 40,000 btu per gallon (chopping, cooking, fermenting, &
distilling)

SVO 100 x (125,000 - 12,000) = 11.3 million btu/per acre.
Ethanol 400 x (75,000 – 40,000) = 14 million btu/per acre.

Again the gap narrows yet further form 2.4 to 1 to 1.25 to 1 still in favor of ethanol
but bio-diesel is getting close, close enough to where what type of fuel your current equipment requires could nullify such a small advantage either way.

Curbie

[BioHazard]

Again the gap narrows yet further form 2.4 to 1 to 1.25 to 1 still in favor of ethanol
but bio-diesel is getting close, close enough to where what type of fuel your current equipment requires could nullify such a small advantage either way.

Yeah...in addition to more oil crops we need more "oil engines" to burn it in. If a diesel engine is almost twice as efficient as one burning ethanol, that 1.25:1 line gets pretty blurry. But we don't need to start another arguement about that...

If I had the property I would surely be growing both oil and ethanol for personal use.

[Curbie]

Yeah...in addition to more oil crops we need more "oil engines" to burn it in. If a diesel engine is almost twice as efficient as one burning ethanol, that 1.25:1 line gets pretty blurry. But we don't need to start another arguement about that...

If I had the property I would surely be growing both oil and ethanol for personal use.

That's another issue to consider, the availability of suitable diesel engines in small power ranges, they seem to be out of favor the government in the US. A diesel burning bio-diesel needs to be 31% efficient to equalize with a 25% engine burning ethanol using the rough btu/acre math below.

It seems to me, that growing and processing bio-diesel has an advantage in that is is pretty easy to get your mind around each step, where growing and processing ethanol it's far more difficult for each step and there are more steps, ethanol's advantage is more btu/acre.

Curbie

Diesel (BtuD)   128,000   btu/gal   
Bio-Diesel (BtuB)   11,300,000   btu/gal   btu per acre, 118000 btu per gallon
Gasoline (BtuG)   115,000   btu/gal   
Ethanol (BtuE)   14,000,000   btu/gal   btu per acre, 76000 btu per gallon
Diesel Engine Efficiency (DEE)   25%      
Bio-Diesel Engine Efficiency (BEE)   25%      31% to equalize
Gasoline Engine Efficiency (GEE)   25%      
Ethanol Engine Efficiency (EEE)   25%      
Diesel Fuel Production (DFP)   12.6   hp-h   =(BtuD / Btu2Hp) * DEE
Bio-Diesel Fuel Production (BFP)   1109.9   hp-h   =(BtuB / Btu2Hp) * BEE
Gasoline Fuel Production (GFP)   11.3   hp-h   =(BtuG / Btu2Hp) * GEE
Ethanol Fuel Production (EFP)   1375.1   hp-h   =(BtuE / Btu2Hp) * EEE

Constants         
BTU Per Hour Per Horse-power (Btu2Hp)   2545   btu   =(Hp2W / 1000) * kWh2Btu
1 kWh to BTU (kWh2Btu)   3412   btu   
1 Horse-power to Watts (Hp2W)   746   watts

[billswan]

Curbie

You wrote this quote

"Ethanol crop yields (sweet sorghum or Jerusalem Artichoke @ ~42˚ latitude) ~400 gallons per acre per year."

I have to ask - I always thought that sweet sorghum yielded much higher than 400 gallons of E per acre? are there any plants turning it to ethanol? I was not aware of any.

Billswan

[deeiche]

rm /

[bschwartz]

     "Again the gap narrows yet further form 2.4 to 1 to 1.25 to 1 still in favor of ethanol"

AND... The oil plant still has value as animal feed after the fuel component is removed !!!!!  Where does that fit into the calculations?

[deeiche]

rm /

[billswan]

Yes an oil seed has meal  that has feed value and corn ethanol have either wet or dried distillers grain.
Also a VERY valuable feed source for cattle and some other livestock.

BUT here is a little known tidbit if you take the distillers grain from corn ethanol and press the oil out of it guess what you also have corn oil that can be used as fuel!!!!!!!!!!! It does degrade the distillers grain and make it less valuable but some plants do remove a part of the oil and sell it for fuel or just plain burn it to fire the process of distillation and fermentation.

And thanks to you deeiche for the kind words but I have got to also hand it to fuel farmer for his work on his own private biodiesel fuel fuel process it is well beyond my patience. But he might be one of the few left in business if there is a real fuel shortage for reasons unknown. (Read that as stupid moves by government)

Billswan

[Curbie]

I have to ask - I always thought that sweet sorghum yielded much higher than 400 gallons of E per acre? are there any plants turning it to ethanol? I was not aware of any.

Crop yields are tricky numbers, they depend on climate, rainfall, soil, fertilizer, planting and harvesting techniques. There are studies that show yield numbers all over the map for sweet sorghum and especially Jerusalem artichokes, I'm more interested in small or home-scale solutions (the energy companies seem to be doing just fine) so I tend to use pretty conservative numbers.

I use this btu/acre example in both ethanol and bio-diesel groups because after making both ethanol and bio diesel over that last 30 years, no matter which you choose, it's a good choice for you but may not be the best choice for others.

Curbie

[fuelfarmer]

Thanks for the kind words also. I see biodiesel as a bridge to something that will be better down the road. For now I can grow and run the fuel in existing equipment. The railroads made the change from coal to diesel and they had to change out a lot of equipment to do so. We might have to change equipment to match fuel in the future.

We also use corn for energy. It is burned for heat. No processing needed.

It is good to be able to grow a lot of our own fuel, but as they say, no man is a island. We still need a good healthy economy and some leadership on the energy front or we will all suffer a lower standard of living. My dad is from a time when farmers grew most of their energy. The horses ate all year long.

Life without cheap energy is very hard, and short.     

[LowGear]

We still need a good healthy economy and some leadership on the energy front or we will all suffer a lower standard of living.

I second this completely.  You just can't ship all of your gravy to another part of the world and expect your potatoes to stay yummy.  (Irish decent)  I planted oil palms last year but they may just turn out to be pretty.  The important thing is to be looking for self investment and moving towards universal applications like our diesel engines. 

Casey 

[fuelfarmer]

This hobby sometimes is just fun.