EPA to Regulate Dairy Milk Spills as per Oil Spills

[RogerAS]

snip...
Your simile falls down because I can absolutely prove that stamp collecting exists as a hobby; whereas you cannot prove there is no god...

AdeV,

Better read what I wrote again because you missed my intent by a mile.

I agree that collecting stamps is a real hobby that many people enjoy, but NOT collecting those stamps is NOT a hobby. Having no faith that there is a god is not the same thing as having faith that there is.

Atheism, for me, involves no faith whatsoever. Atheism, for me, is the LACK of belief that any god exists. Not one assertion in regards to any god has ever lead to the production of one shred of empirical supporting evidence. Of course anyone is welcome to provide the type of repeatable evidence I would require to change my opinion. For someone that bases their views on real world evidence it requires no faith to hold an opinion, based on the track record of these gods lack of observable interaction with reality, that such assertions are fabrications of man. I also lack faith that a green invisible dragon lives in my engine shack.

In religious terms, the "best" one can do to be unreligious in all forms is to be agnostic - although the OED definition of agnostic still implies belief: "a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God."

I completely disagree with the entirely of the above. If one allows reason to guide one in coming to a position regarding the existence of any god one cannot remain agnostic at all. The complete lack of empirical evidence for any god forces one to dismiss the empty assertions of faith. The agnostic is not guided by logic or reason and is little better off than the most fervent faith based view in that they also disallow their view to be guided by logic or reason.

So, final word: Most atheists probably don't think of themselves as "having faith" or "believing" in something, but actually they do. Until someone conclusively proves the presence or absence of a single deity, or several deities, it's a belief system just like Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism etc.

It requires no faith at all to use logic and reason to conclude, based on the evidence to date, that no god exists. Religions are making a positive assertion that their favorite god is a reality with no supporting evidence whatsoever (with over 5,000 years of history with which to work). Not one shred of supporting empirical evidence has ever been produced by any person of faith. Atheists make no claims that needs supporting evidence. What sort of evidence could one produce to support the non existence of any god? Atheism is the lack of acceptance that any god exists. No more and no less. All the religions you cite are atheistic towards Thor.

I think we are just quibbling over semantics. I don't see any faith in my position because i base it on observable reality.

R

R

[Crofter]

Here is my philosophy; works for me!

Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.

Siddhartha Gautama

[cgwymp]

Here is my philosophy; works for me!

Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.

Siddhartha Gautama

Old Sid said an awful lot I agree with....

[LowGear]

People are different.

Not all are theists.

Get over it.

Milk really stinks when it goes bad.

Cheese can be good.

[AdeV]

Milk really stinks when it goes bad.

Cheese can be good.

Cheese is basically milk that's gone off, right?

So how does cheese go off?



I never did get that one.

[deeiche]

rm /

[cognos]

Ya - if you leave "sour" cream out on the counter overnight, does it go "good"?



One person's cheese is somebody else's rotten milk...

[mike90045]

same thing with Vinegar, how does it go bad?  

Turbatrix aceti - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinegar_eels

[Crofter]

Well, I think you guys better not start making your own cheese! "Gone off" is a pretty broad term and depending on which one (or many) of thousands of different bacteria and /or fungus responsible, it might be fair or foul or even deadly. Cheese making is either art or science to be dependable though lucky accidents have happened.

Pasteurized (sterilized to a point) milk is much more foul than raw milk when it goes off. I have owned cows and goats and dabbled a bit with cheese making; good cheese needs a bit of help in selecting which organisms you allow to work on the milk and also temperature control.

I had the experience some 50 years ago of going to a dump where literally tons of bread dough had been dumped due to a power failure in the city. That was the vilest smelling mess you would ever want to be around. The Pillsbury Dough Boy would have shown you projectile vomiting if he was there!

There was a lot of spin in the article heading this thread and it was intended to raise just the kind of indignation it did. I doubt that the proposed regulations have ever been acted on or finalized in law. I doubt it was much more than an enabling tool to deal with potentially irresponsible corporate operators, not the little guy.  Many corporate entities are quick to pull political strings to get enforcement personnel  off their backs when ticked off for trashing the environment.

[Crofter]

Here is a link to a situation where the establishment had to be dragged into doing the right thing to enable controls on a horrible human killing industry in Canada. Powerfull political lobbying has kept it going years after it was banned in most enlightened countries.

Asbestos

http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Ottawa+quietly+cuts+funding+asbestos+industry+group/4402029/story.html

Not sure whether you merricans are still expected to "suck it up"

[vdubnut62]

Well! Hmmph! I consider my cheese as "Having gone over to the Dark Side" when it turns green and furry all over.
Ron

[slowspeed]

Ok how about this
last night at 11:00 pm 
I get out of bed  go to the fridg. and gulp down the last of a gallon of milk
IT WAS BAD !!! SOUR!!
OOOO MY God Help!!
It only took 2 gulps to find out that
I do not like sour milk!!
But I like cheese

[AdeV]

Ok how about this
last night at 11:00 pm 
I get out of bed  go to the fridg. and gulp down the last of a gallon of milk
IT WAS BAD !!! SOUR!!
OOOO MY God Help!!
It only took 2 gulps to find out that
I do not like sour milk!!

Are you, in fact, living the Minority Report?  I always sniff milk before drinking.... a good way to avoid Delhi Belly...

But I like cheese

Likewise. I even quite like cottage cheese, which is basically just lumpy milk (more lump than milk, fortunately)

[Crofter]

I like buttermilk but that is a different beast than spoiled milk. I used to drink it half and half with ginger ale;  one of my buds sharing the digs could not even watch me drink it without gagging. They didn't have to worry about me stealing their beer and I had no worries about them scoffing up my buttermilk.  You just cant make good pancakes without buttermilk!

[LowGear]

Here is a link to a situation where the establishment had to be dragged into doing the right thing to enable controls on a horrible human killing industry in Canada. Powerfull political lobbying has kept it going years after it was banned in most enlightened countries.

If any other country had killed this many Mericans there would have been a declaration of Weapons of Mass Destruction against them.  And we all know what that leads to no matter how good their maple syrup is!

Casey

Buttermilk and Ginger Ale?  Who triple dared you into putting that into your mouth?  If I was really drunk I might unless I realized the consequences of ending up liking it.  Of course there would be the many "won" drinks by doing it.  No, I'm sorry.  This is a wrong thing!  It must be a trick you're playing on the peanut gallery here.  I suspect my large intestine would grow shut rather than process it.