EPA to Regulate Dairy Milk Spills as per Oil Spills

[mbryner]

Eat more beans, America needs the gas...

but a man can have an ideal, can't he?

Aye!

[BioHazard]

This is why I will not burn motor oil - there is always a chance of a spill.

But if you spill regular diesel, no problem?

As for the health discussion, I know I could probably live longer if I ate differently and stopped smoking. On the other hand, I know I can be the healthiest person in the world and get hit by a bus tomarrow. Quite frankly I'd rather live a shorter, more indulgent life, than a longer one eating rabbit food...

My doctor tells me similar things and tells me how he goes running all the time and about the kind of stuff he eats...and I can't help but think "but you still look horrible".  

It's basically the same thing as the WMO/no WMO debate....

I wonder if statistically doctors live longer lives? Do mechanics get more miles out of their cars?  

[BioHazard]

Not necessarily - there is no scientific evidence of god (or a god, or many gods); there is strong but not conclusive evidence that god and religion are entirely man-made constructs. But..... until absolutely proven one way or another, science cannot answer the question "Is there a god?" with anything other than "maybe".

Oh...I can prove it one way or the other...I just can't come back and share the results....


As to religion, I am neither atheiest nor religious of any kind...I'm open to just about anything. So far nobody has really convinced me to come to their side. That's why when I die I want to be burried in my Chevy...it's gonna be a long drive.   I bet the EPA will love that.

[BioHazard]

The EPA rules are there to prevent worse environmental contamination.   What is disturbing is how the little guy suffers while big industry sometimes gets away with tremendous pollution.  

You know it's funny, there is actually medical use of marijuana and even cocaine...I believe some laboratories are allowed to manufacture cocaine in the US for medical or other uses. There has been Federal medical marijuana patient testing. I still can't get an exemption for "experimental research" of a friggin' Listeroid.     But why would I need one of those when I can buy a 2 stroke generator for $79 working at 2.8kw per gallon....

Here in the NW people are getting pissed off because they are building wind farms, but California is buying all the power produced, to offset their own coal burning plants. Those of us who live next to the wind farms don't get the power so that LA can be extra crappy. Kinda how the US military is completely exempt from EPA restrictions.

Do as I say, not as I do, damnit!

[RogerAS]

God and religious beliefs can't be proven.   That's why it's called faith.

Ironically, Atheism is also a faith, because the absence of God can't be proven either...

AdeV,

Haven't dealt with many atheists have you?

Actually atheism is the lack of belief, or faith that, any any supernatural force or being exists. Atheism is a matter of faith as much as NOT collecting stamps is a hobby.

R

[bschwartz]

On fracking.....  If they just used water and steam, it might be safer.
Just try to get a list of the 'other' chemicals they pump into the ground to push the gas and oil out.
They are pretty quiet about that.
The problems with the fracking are the chemicals getting into the aquafers that the systems pass through.
Ground water contamination is nothing compared to the absolute disasters of messing up underground systems that we can't see or clean up if there is an "OOPS" that WILL happen.  I for one am not willing to chance clean water for cheaper gas.

Fracking is nothing more than a 'fracking' disaster waiting (some already have) to happen.

A lady working for the industry says that 90% of the water is recycled...... Oh good, only 10% of the chemically infused water leaks!!!

[Apogee]

I fully agree with Brett.

Everything that I've read regarding fracking essentially states that it's a MAJOR disaster that is being sanctioned by the govt.  The pollution taking place in the aquifers is horrible and the "solution" is to not locate drinking wells within 6 miles of a fracking well.

LOL!

Hope folks enjoy chemically tainted water because soon that's all there is going to be left.

I'm very, very glad that I'm the age I am (45) and that I don't have kids.  I'm terrified what the world is going to be like to live in 25 years.

Regarding the EPA, I grew up in LA and remember what it was like in the 70's and 80's.  The smog was horrible.  Thanks to the Calif Clean Air Resources Board and the EPA, it's not nearly as bad as it used to be.  From that perspective, they've done good.  However, in my opinion, they're now off track.  Just the fact that it's so difficult to buy diesel vehicles here is proof.  We should have been emulating Europe 15 years ago when they switched to diesel.  Imagine the fuel that would have been saved over the last 10 years if the EPA had been serious about forcing significant mileage improvements.  Commensurate with the mileage improvements would have been a decrease in emissions as less product would have been being burned.  I don't view them as serious because they still exempt the military, and much of big business.  They only come down on the little guys because they can get away with it. 

They have bought into the "constant improvement" model that essentially is never satisfied.  Instead of establishing a benchmark and being happy, the end game is simply zero emissions of any kind.  We could go back to small leather pouches that contain all of our possessions short of a spear, and they'd be following us around wanting to capture any methane gas produced while our stomachs process food.

I'm sorry but requiring catalysts on model airplane engines seems obscene to me and is clearly indicative of an agency that it completely out of control.

And Marcus is right about his diet comments.  I enjoy a piece of meat every now and again, but the reality is it's bad for me and I know it.

Steve

[mbryner]

there is actually medical use of marijuana and even cocaine...I believe some laboratories are allowed to manufacture cocaine in the US for medical or other uses.

Thanks for educating me on fracking.   Learning something every day.

re: Medical use of marijuana: of course marijuana has pain control properties, but about the only way to get it into your system right now is to smoke it, and it has all the other "side effects" of being stoned, etc.  And the doses from smoking it are quite variable.   There are some great pain meds that do the same thing for pain, but unfortunately drug co's control the prices not MD's.   Would the gov't ever think of regulating that?   Never.   Not in a "free market" economy.

re: Cocaine use in medicine:  yes, cocaine (or at least very similar to street cocaine) is actually used in certain surgeries by ear/nose/throat doc's.   If I remember correctly it's a very effective anesthetic on mucous membranes.   It was pretty highly regulated when I last saw it used in a surgery (that was back in medical school), so they may not use it much any more because of the hassle.

OK, well, while I was writing this an ER doc friend came in to ask me about something, so I asked him about cocaine.   He says he uses it frequently for severe nosebleeds because of it's great vasoconstricting and anesthetic properties.   It's in the hosp pharmacy and regulated about the same as Morphine or Dilaudid.    (Of course those vasoconstricting properties are what causes cardiac arrest and strokes in overdoses.)

Hmm, I remember being in LA in the late 70's.   We lived in San Bernardino/Loma Linda area until I was 6, and my grandparents lived in Riverside through the late 80's.   The smog was terrible.   Then I had to go back there for my medical training from 1996-2005.   The smog was better, but there were/are still many days when you can't see the mountains across the valley.    It's funny, when we go to Europe the population density is much higher than here, the smog is much less, lots of people use mass transit, and the cars get 50+ mpg.    For some reason Americans think that's weird.   We make freeway sized roads in residential neighborhoods that just make the ground hotter.   We give more money to making more freeways instead of fixing the dilapidated rails.   When I do find a non-car option for getting somewhere, it doesn't go when I want it to, or the people on it are too scary to sit next to.   Oh well, the rest of the world advances while we sit and debate for 10 years and then decide the money will be wasted on some pet project.

[LowGear]

or the people on it are too scary to sit next to.

Have you looked at your avatar lately?

It scares me when others make sense.

Casey

[vdubnut62]

Don't forget the clusters of earthquakes caused by fracking..........check out the last couple of weeks news from Arkansas.
Ron.

[AdeV]

God and religious beliefs can't be proven.   That's why it's called faith.

Ironically, Atheism is also a faith, because the absence of God can't be proven either...

Haven't dealt with many atheists have you?

Actually atheism is the lack of belief, or faith that, any any supernatural force or being exists. Atheism is a matter of faith as much as NOT collecting stamps is a hobby.

Roger - I am one. I certainly don't believe in an all-seeing deity who's apparently benign, but used to be prone to bouts of anger and smiting, and who needs praising every Sunday.... and I know enough of the physical world to see how it all fits together "au naturale".

But I couldn't prove there is no god. And, therefore, atheism is the belief that there is no god, or no supernatural forces, etc. It requires faith (definition: complete trust or confidence in someone or something) to be an atheist...

Your simile falls down because I can absolutely prove that stamp collecting exists as a hobby; whereas you cannot prove there is no god...

In religious terms, the "best" one can do to be unreligious in all forms is to be agnostic - although the OED definition of agnostic still implies belief: "a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God."

So, final word: Most atheists probably don't think of themselves as "having faith" or "believing" in something, but actually they do. Until someone conclusively proves the presence or absence of a single deity, or several deities, it's a belief system just like Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism etc.

[BioHazard]

In religious terms, the "best" one can do to be unreligious in all forms is to be agnostic - although the OED definition of agnostic still implies belief: "a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God."

All I would have to add to that is "until further notice".

[Crofter]

[/quote]

Roger - I am one. I certainly don't believe in an all-seeing deity who's apparently benign, but used to be prone to bouts of anger and smiting, and who needs praising every Sunday.... and I know enough of the physical world to see how it all fits together "au naturale".


Until someone conclusively proves the presence or absence of a single deity, or several deities, it's a belief system just like Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism etc.
[/quote]

Well AdeV I think you are being either a contrarian or the devils advocate ,lol
Disbelieving, for lack of proof is far less aquiescent to faith than believing with lack of proof. Quibbling perhaps but in that area we disagree; otherwise I guess YOU could say we are of the same "faith". Faithfull is so often such a complementary term but for me it is not if it means full of faith, Lol

[AdeV]

Well AdeV I think you are being either a contrarian or the devils advocate ,lol
Disbelieving, for lack of proof is far less aquiescent to faith than believing with lack of proof. Quibbling perhaps but in that area we disagree; otherwise I guess YOU could say we are of the same "faith". Faithfull is so often such a complementary term but for me it is not if it means full of faith, Lol

Hmm, how can one be a devil's advocate, if the devil doesn't exist? And if he does exist, does that also prove the existence of a god or gods?...

FWIW, I am probably nit-picking it a bit; but, there is no doubt that if one holds (as I do) the atheist position that "there is no god", then that position can ONLY be based on faith (in this case, the belief that there is no god). Not necessarily what you might consider the "standard" use of the word faith, but I believe (no pun intended) that it is accurate nonetheless.

[rcavictim]

Any engineer knows that the devil does exist and it resides "in the details".  I cannot off hand think of any other use of the term that is legitimate.

As for the existence of all of Mankind's invented notions of Gods....don't get me started.  When I am asked to fill in the blank for my religion in an official form I describe myself as "diagnostic'.  The scientist in me decides what is true and what is bullshit through research, experimentation and observation.  Perhaps I should have been from Missouri.