EPA to Regulate Dairy Milk Spills as per Oil Spills

[BioHazard]

What's wrong w/ vegetarians?  Them's fightin' words!     Meat isn't the best protein source, BTW, and most people get way too much protein in their diets.

People were "designed" to eat meat, just like lions. A "healthy" diet really has nothing to do with vegetarian or meat eater. If you eat nothing but tripple cheeseburgers, you'll probably have a heart attack. On the other hand if you eat nothing but salad, you'll probably look malnourished. If you think about it most of the vegetables we eat today are genetically engineered to be how they are, corn being a major example.

Then there are people like my aunt Betty, who keeled over in a bar after 85 years of hard drinkin', smokin' and eating absolutely anything and everything. Not such a bad run, and she always satisfied her cravings.

[AdeV]

I agree completely, but when you live in a supposedly "free" country, those regulations need to end somewhere. I think we can all agree that the US and Canada both have regulations about all sorts of things that are simply stupid and nothing else.

I subscribe to the Libertarian philosophy, which is - in a nutshell: you shall not initiate force or fraud against life, liberty or property.

Basically: You can do anything you like, so long as it doesn't harm someone else, or damage their property, or restrict their liberty. Your freedom to swing your fists ends at my nose, to misquote someone.

[RogerAS]

There has to be some rules, and penalties. Modern society demands it, so some level of government ends up with the responsibility for regulation and enforcement.

I agree completely, but when you live in a supposedly "free" country, those regulations need to end somewhere. I think we can all agree that the US and Canada both have regulations about all sorts of things that are simply stupid and nothing else.

I think the EPA needs more checks and balances. They seem to have run amuck. They are costing our economy great amounts of money. We never get to vote on the rules they make. Sounds like China...

Despite my better judgment I'm going to add my opinion here.

Newt is the LAST person on earth I would trust to provide accurate and factual information about anything.

The base issue is that there are just too many people competing for the limited resources available. The less fortunate suffer the most in such situations, and the problem is growing right along with the population. Until such time as there is a real effort to curtain this growth we are our own worst enemy. Since no such control mechanism exists we are faced with choices as how best to deal with the situation at hand. Are we to ignore the long record of good for which such agencies as the EPA are to be credited? That sort of reaction is shortsighted, and ignores the well established record of corporate greed wherein dumping of toxins was common practice. The differences between what was allowed years ago, with the current demands of the world population, and what we see now is largely a result of the regulations, and enforcement thereof, by such agencies as the EPA. I, for one, applaud these changes, and we all enjoy a much cleaner world thanks to their efforts. To attempt to enact budget tightening measures that would drastically reduce funding for these environmental protection agencies will only result is a reversal of all the progress we've made. I see the whole affair as a political game focused exclusively on the short term and creating a false sense of panic where something must be done right now.

Instead of drilling for the very last drop of oil, gas and mining the last ton of coal wouldn't it be prudent to invest in figuring out alternatives that won't poison the planet? Allowing drilling in ANWR, or other pristine settings, for a little more oil that will get sold to the highest bidder, which is often foreign, is not my idea of patriotic. The oil will still be there, and when we develop cleaner means to get it it will be worth far more. Turning the Gulf of Mexico into a failed experiment for BP, Haliburton and the rest of the usual suspects doesn't sit well with me either. 11 people died as a result of pure negligence and not one person is responsible? Sadly the agencies meant to protect our environment, and human life, dropped the ball, or handed it off willingly. These sorts of failures in these governmental offices is where we need to improve, and more money isn't needed. Dedicated people working with the knowledge that we are entrusting our future to them and act accordingly is what we need.

I know big business is around to stay, but considering the profits reported by the likes of Exxon-Mobil, and the TAX BREAKS they are getting, I can't see how reducing the power of the EPA is warranted or justified. No, we cannot force the rest of the world to clean up its act, but we can act with the knowledge that at least we are trying to think beyond the next tank of gas. When we, as a people, lease oil fields we, the people, need to get a big cut right off the top. The deficit would be reduced far more than by cutting funding to the very governmental oversight that keeps toxins like DDT out of my drinking water.

If there are regulations that don't make sense there needs to be a means by which the people can petition for reviews. A little milk here and there is one thing, but a tanker load on the freeway is another. If that tanker is loaded with heavy cream the fat content might indeed be a problem for the local biosphere. I sure don't want my favorite small mouth stream wiped out by milk! Why not develop procedures for how to best deal with such eventualities?

R

[cognos]

I see the "free country" stuff too often. No one lives in a "free country." We live "freely" inside the strictures placed on us by society - no more, no less.
The EPA has it's place. I'm sure it has some ridiculous rules. In the end, I would bet that it does more good for the general population than harm.

With education comes responsibility. The more we know, the more things we know we *should* do - and shouldn't.

I used to live in a town with a major canning facility as the main in-town industry. Come tomato canning season, the local river, that ran right through the centre of town through a beautiful park - would turn red and the fish would all die, and the town would reek of tomatos for weeks - and this was seen as a good thing... ya, noise, stink, and smoke used to mean money. But it's unsustainable.

[mbryner]

People were "designed" to eat meat, just like lions.

Then there are people like my aunt Betty, who keeled over in a bar after 85 years of hard drinkin', smokin' and eating absolutely anything and everything. Not such a bad run, and she always satisfied her cravings.

Sure anecdotal cases of hardlivin' people living abnormally long lives are easily found.  

I'm just telling you from my perspective as a physician, if you eat a lot of red meat you will have a statistically much higher chance of colon cancer, atherosclerosis, other cancers, etc.   Do I need to mention cirrhosis, liver cancer, accidents, and crime associated w/ drinking?   Or heart disease, lung cancer, atherosclerosis, strokes, emphysema, bladder cancer, etc. etc. associated w/ smoking?   From a scientific standpoint a lacto-ovo-vegetarian diet has great benefits.

God and religious beliefs can't be proven.   That's why it's called faith.   But you referred to being "designed" to be carnivores, so I'll go with that.   Look at human canine teeth for example:  the canine teeth in carnivores are huge for tearing meat.   Humans have relatively little canines, putting us in the omnivore category.   Our teeth are great for seeds, nuts, grains, rice, beans, fruits, veggies, and even meat.    And, if you subscribe to the Bible like most Americans say they do, humans only started to eat meat after the great flood.

You mention "always satisfying cravings".   If I satisfy a craving for grabbing the a** of the totally hot nurse or tech down the hall, I'd probably lose my job and get in hot water w/ the wife!  

I am very much a libertarian in my political thinking, so sure, you are free to eat and drink and smoke whatever you want in your house/car/land if it's not affecting me or someone else.   But when my taxes have to try to put you back together or keep you from dying from cancer because you did it with full knowledge of what you were doing, I have big problems with it.

Now back to milk spills...

[AdeV]

God and religious beliefs can't be proven.   That's why it's called faith.

Ironically, Atheism is also a faith, because the absence of God can't be proven either...

[Geno]

Thanks Marcus. I've been waiting for that.

Thanks, Geno

[LowGear]

OK!  I can't take it anymore.

Real canines have about 1/2 the intestinal track you and I have.  I know mbryner has more reliable and respected data.  Try eating week old meat that hasn't been refrigerated and do the same with veggies.  Come on, real canines can do both.  How about three day old milk that hasn't been refrigerated?  Really pissed at someone?  Pour a cup of milk down the inside of their car door. 

If not being able to prove the non existence of something proves something then look out cause Zeus and the Buga-Buga man are waiting for you in the dark - for sure.  I can't prove it so it must be?

When someone finds a libertarian styled government that has worked for more than 10 people for more than 10 years please let me know where to sign up.  Eden didn't make it with a population of 2 (or 3 if you count the snake) and Divine leadership.  One stinking rule!

I had to have sweet onion yesterday.  We've all been there.  Give me the sweet onion or give me death!  The only one I could fine was grown in Chile?  Once you pay for shipping and profits how much can they possibly be giving the farmer?

OK; I'm better now.  Back to the important stuff of making energy without shipping if half way around the planet. 

Casey

[BioHazard]

If there are regulations that don't make sense there needs to be a means by which the people can petition for reviews.

You say that like the EPA makes complete and total sense. Yes, the EPA does good things. Yes, they have also done a lot of bad things. Please, for the love of god, explain to me why I can import as many horribly inefficient mosquito foggger 2 stroke generators as I want but I'm not allowed to have so much as ONE water cooled Changfa? Who do I "petition for review"? SERIOUSLY, SOMEBODY EXPLAIN THAT!!

Like I said, I totally agree with a lot of things the EPA has done...but they shouldn't be allowed to do just about anything they want with no oversight. Seems like they can just pull any rule they want out of their ass and enforce it, whether it makes sense or not, and we don't get to vote on it. Am I wrong? Who here got to vote when they were deciding whether or not to ban diesels? Nobody asked me....

What if they require you to wear a catalytic converter on your ass to catch every fart? Might make the air a little cleaner. If people didn't eat so much bad food they wouldn't have so much emissions. Maybe we could even harvest the energy source for something. Are you going to run out and buy a cat to stick up your butt when they make this rule on a whim?

[Crofter]

Some get it, some don't;
Some will, and some won't!

Anyways, I thought it has been suggested that discussion of politics and religion didnt look good on the forum . I dont think it would be any misfortune if this thread disappeared.

[mbryner]

This thread is pretty interesting and hilarious.

After owning a listeroid for the past 3 years, I am inclined to think the EPA has craniorectal incarceration.  So many rules and regulations make no sense.

So after all this talk about spilling milk and oil, here's a what-if that is more plausible to many of us:   what if my 500 gallon diesel tank which is on an 8 ft stand one day crashes to the ground and leaks a few hundred gallons onto the ground.   If the EPA knew about it, I'd be fined hundreds of thousands of $$$ and possibly be put in jail, even if it was an accident and I was an upstanding citizen my whole life.   If the EPA doesn't know about it, the oil eventually dissipates.   How much gets into the water table or runs off into rivers?  Don't know.  What would the they do to clean it up anyway?   Nothing.

The EPA rules are there to prevent worse environmental contamination.   What is disturbing is how the little guy suffers while big industry sometimes gets away with tremendous pollution.  

On the other hand, I was listening to a debate on NPR a few days ago about drilling for natural gas and using fracking (spelling?) in Pennsylvania.   One lady for the drilling co.'s was talking about how >90% of the water used was recycled and the waste water was really cleaned up, and how they could drill vertically and horizontally from one rig/area, which limits the surface disturbance.   The EPA and gov't regulatory agencies seemed to agree w/ the drilling co's analyst, but the enviro's were all bent on shutting it all down.   They were worried about traces of this and that contaminant....   Anyway, I guess my point is that the EPA is great for some things but for us it sucks.

(Just so there is no confusion from a few posts back, I am quite conservative Christian in personal beliefs but I'm also a scientist.   Is that an oxymoron nowadays or what...  Oops, mixing science, politics, and religion in this thread.   Maybe admin will delete it, better be careful... except it is a pretty interesting thread.)

Marcus

[rcavictim]

What if they require you to wear a catalytic converter on your ass to catch every fart? Might make the air a little cleaner. If people didn't eat so much bad food they wouldn't have so much emissions. Maybe we could even harvest the energy source for something. Are you going to run out and buy a cat to stick up your butt when they make this rule on a whim?

My goodness.  I have heard of some strangely possessed people shoving furry little rodents up the you know where, but never a cat.  Does the cat just naturally follow the rodent?  

[mbryner]

Does the cat just naturally follow the rodent?

ROFL  !!!!!   

[AdeV]

My goodness.  I have heard of some strangely possessed people shoving furry little rodents up the you know where, but never a cat.  Does the cat just naturally follow the rodent?  

And what happens when the cat farts, eh? No-one thinks of that when they insist on ramming these poor cats up car exhausts, etc. 

[AdeV]

If not being able to prove the non existence of something proves something then look out cause Zeus and the Buga-Buga man are waiting for you in the dark - for sure.  I can't prove it so it must be?

Not necessarily - there is no scientific evidence of god (or a god, or many gods); there is strong but not conclusive evidence that god and religion are entirely man-made constructs. But..... until absolutely proven one way or another, science cannot answer the question "Is there a god?" with anything other than "maybe".

And you're probably right about a libertarian government; but a man can have an ideal, can't he?