How far do you have to take down an engine to pass EPA?

[BioHazard]

I'm just curious here, can anyone tell me how far an engine would have to be taken apart to be imported into the US as "parts" rather than "diesel engine"? More specifically, if I wanted to bring in some Changfas from Canada...when does the engine become a pile of parts?

[dieselgman]

I would NOT question an EPA official on this mattter, but my educated guess is that it all boils down to a judgement call by the customs official who inspects the load. If they look at it and see "engines" - all bets are off, even in dismantled condition. Some others have split up their loads to contain only certain portions in any one shipment. While we have been able to pass "short blocks", I think the risk of losing a load is fairly high. Want to be safe? Bring only a few pieces at a time. Or better yet, pay someone to take that risk for you.

dieselgman

[cognos]

I just heard this story on Tuesday night.

Last month, a friend of mine went down from Canada to visit friends in Pennsylvania. They have a hunt camp/ski chalet out in the woods somewhere - no electricity except for a small gas generator, wood for heat, etc. - The guy that owns it calls him and says "hey, bring that big diesel generator you have in your shop, we can run the hot tub." Apparently they have one of those portable hot tubs, but the small gas gennie wouldn't run it. The gennie in question is one of those chinese air-cooled diesel units around 6KVA.

So - family in the front, gennie in the back of the truck, along with ski stuff, luggage, etc - in plain sight - he crossed at Fort Erie/Buffalo with no questions asked except for passports and where ya goin'...

Wonder what would stop a generator like that from "falling off the truck?"

Of course, I'm not suggesting anyone try this. That would be wrong.

[playdiesel]

As Gary stated it would seem be up to the agent and mood of the day. This is in line with my dealings at the boarder when I have brought tractors in from Canada. I am by no means an expert but I have spent the last two months looking into this. What a person has to realize is that at our boarders there are laws that govern but they are instituted by people who are allowed to use judgment. Sometimes they go over board, sometimes they look the other way.  With firearms there is one part that the BATF says makes it a firearm, the receiver. You can own or import all the other parts and be OK but the receiver on its own with no other parts is a firearm. No such thing exists with engines and the EPA as far as I can tell so as Gary said IF they look it's up to the agent's judgment.  I think to the letter of the law if the unit is not capable of operating it is not an engine.  Personally  if much money was at stake I would error on the bits and pieces and two shipment side.  Unfortunately that makes things very expensive, more than most will pay This is what has put the halt on my plans , not worry of refusal or confiscation .  And what the EPA is after ,,, is accomplished, very few  bringing in engines parts or otherwise.

[injin man]

As Gary stated it would seem be up to the agent and mood of the day. This is in line with my dealings at the boarder when I have brought tractors in from Canada. I am by no means an expert but I have spent the last two months looking into this. What a person has to realize is that at our boarders there are laws that govern but they are instituted by people who are allowed to use judgment. Sometimes they go over board, sometimes they look the other way.  With firearms there is one part that the BATF says makes it a firearm, the receiver. You can own or import all the other parts and be OK but the receiver on its own with no other parts is a firearm. No such thing exists with engines and the EPA as far as I can tell so as Gary said IF they look it's up to the agent's judgment.  I think to the letter of the law if the unit is not capable of operating it is not an engine.  Personally  if much money was at stake I would error on the bits and pieces and two shipment side.  Unfortunately that makes things very expensive, more than most will pay This is what has put the halt on my plans , not worry of refusal or confiscation .  And what the EPA is after ,,, is accomplished, very few  bringing in engines parts or otherwise.

Not exactly  gun parts that once belonged to or are for any military rifle need State Department approval.
YMMV

[dieselgman]

Good thing we are not talking about guns and armaments here!

dieselgman

[BioHazard]

So the EPA has no real definition of this? Say I show up at the border with ten bare engine blocks and no other parts. Is that going to be trouble?

I wonder what it would take to convert a Changfa into an air compressor. 

I do have a friend up in Port Angeles with a boat, I wonder how much spare iron it can hold.  

[T19]

In the 1930's Canada imported against USA neutrality laws American Armoured Tanks and Scrap... that scrap was used to train the start up Canadian Armoured Corps,,, the scrap FT7 tanks still live in CFB Borden as monuments to Canadian Armoured

If you could find a Canadian who had an engine in Parts in his truck going to sell it for scrap value, or an American looking to buy scrap, and you could not get it working - no fuel pump say.. whats the bother

[deeiche]

rm /

[BioHazard]

If you could find a Canadian who had an engine in Parts in his truck going to sell it for scrap value, or an American looking to buy scrap, and you could not get it working - no fuel pump say.. whats the bother

Seriously though...if I just popped off the head, so that it is clearly no longer a running engine to anybody's eyes, and sent the heads over in a different shipment....

Would they really have any "legal" grounds to stop me?

I figure people smuggle enough weed and mexicans across the border...how hard can it be?  Do they have Changfa sniffing dogs? 

[BioHazard]

I wondered the same thing, a chinese company would probably be willing to make them if you bought a FCL of them.

I don't know about that, for some reason it seems Changfa just isn't interested in selling their water cooled engines to the US, they probably could get them EPA approved if they really wanted to, but they don't bother. That's why you can buy an air cooled EPA approved Changfa all day long.

Maybe one of the other MFGs would....

[deeiche]

rm /

[playdiesel]

So the EPA has no real definition of this? Say I show up at the border with ten bare engine blocks and no other parts. Is that going to be trouble?

Not that I can find. That does not mean that some agent would not try to dream it up.
Bare blocks is parts, dont see how they could say differant.

[Crofter]

I wonder if it should still wear its engine tag that identified it as a certified purpose assembled engine.

[playdiesel]

I wonder if it should still wear its engine tag that identified it as a certified purpose assembled engine.

Good thought,
None of the Chinese diesels I currently own have the tag attached a large, heavy part. One would have to think that removing said part and shipping it seperately would be prudent,, even though none of us would even dream of actualy dream of reassembling one once here