NEW MEMBERS IDEAS

[DRDEATH]

I recieved a PM from LLF saying he had deleated his post over the LOVSON compressors.

I did not ask him if I could post this so I hope it is alright with him. He is new to the forum and was excited about belonging. His goal is to be self sufficent if need be. He also wanted to bring something to this forum in the way of information.

He had some ideas that he put a lot of thought and research into. He was made to feel that everything he had to share was pretty much in vain. How many of us have rersearched something new and felt it was a good idea just to have people dischourage us? I think we should encourage people to follow there dream and offer support and guidence.

I wanted to go back and read the post from other people again beside him to see if I could point out what remarks might have been negative. I see it is all gone.

I know I have had ideas that may have not followed the norm. It is people with new ideas that create advancement in this world. Getting engines into the US in form of aircompressors is not new but it is also not discussed much. I think anyway of getting something into the country even if it goes against the grain of the govt is great.

I hope LLF will continue to be part of the forum. Even the newest members have ideas that might be of some interest to others. Mike DrDeath 

[deeiche]

rm /

[Crofter]

DD, I thought the whole thread brought out a lot of good information; on the import process and costs involved and also on weighing the whole costs to completion of a project. I didnt think any of the advice was anything but neutral, even though it did bring question to output expectations and fuel consumption figures.

I am sorry that LLF felt he should pull his posts and I hope he sticks around. This is a good place to throw out ideas on a broad range of topics; I am sure that if someone even raised the question here, on how to make a good first choice selection of a wife, he would get lots of experienced advice that would include caution instead of merely saying follow your dream.                             

I suspect that once LLF's posts were deleted the moderators would have had to remove the rest of the thread to avoid confusion. It is probably a good concern to remind us about welcoming new members. It helps if we know something about a persons technical background so we neither talk down to, or over the head of a poster.

[billswan]

Well gee I sure hope my pointing out that the output of a 14/1 might not make quite what he was thinking,did not cause trouble it was sure not meant to. Or the link to a yanmar at surplus center.
If so please take my apology.

I thought it was a great thread what I got to read of it.

Billswan

[rcavictim]

I took a humored swipe at Brokers.  I hope that was not taken in any negative light.  If so, someone will just have to learn all about brokers and all the other parasites with their hands in the trough whenever one tries to import something, all by themselves.

I do hope LLF will stick around.  He is very welcomed here.

[wiebe]

Littlebit as an outsider i read the topic on the lef .
But to me it was like someone was trying to sell stuf.
But i can have it wrong ,and it was not eazy to read for me.

[Bottleveg]

I was following that thread and I didn't read anything untoward. I found it informative and good that LLF put some figures up.
One of the reasons for joining forums is to learn and share information.
No dream ever survives 100% to reality. ideas change through trial and error; they evolve with help from folks who have walked a similar path.
I come up with ideas myself, some work some don't. Ether way I learn something.
If folks share their knowledge with me it gives more possibilities and often saves me time and money.
I've found that having a positive plan with options avoids too many disappointments.
However, I am open to ideas on this.

[injin man]

I found the negativity toward his endeavor a little harsh. I am on many other forums and am pretty
well known in the FAL and M14 circuit, at times many 'old timers' with sarcastic humor come across
as rude. My personal belief is that if it's negative I go ahead and delete it and I don't have to apologize.
We had a discussion early on when I first arrived about whether a Lister Clone could be built, immediately
the ' oh no that can't be done, it would cost too much' pile on hit me. Please, if you don't like Lister's
or Listeroids that's ok just keep your comments as positive as you can. Growing our community is by far
more important than what "your" preferred engine is and why it's superior to mine. While I don't know
what LLF's motivation for a 14/1 was he was ok with it and that's really all that matters.We should support
him the way we did Marcus when his exploded and got back on line. Our's is journey not a destination.

Rant off.

Ben

[BioHazard]

Please, if you don't like Lister'sor Listeroids that's ok just keep your comments as positive as you can. Growing our community is by farmore important than what "your" preferred engine is and why it's superior to mine.

I don't think it was anti-lister at all, somebody had to interject a bit of reality to the conversation. Nobody told him he shouldn't be doing that, rather, other ideas were suggested. Sometimes when you get all wrapped up in a project like that you start to get a bit of tunnel vision.

I know you guys have burst my bubble more than once, but I'm glad you did, because in the end you guys just saved me time and money on something that probably wouldn't have worked anyway. I don't think anybody here should be afraid to say "no that won't work" as long as you aren't being an ass about it.

[LLF]

Hi, this LLF, I assure you, know one who has posted to any of my two topic's offended me. I had thought I did my homework on this, I am 48 and normally will spend months researching my projects to keep the mistakes down to a minimum. This was also the case when I was researching for a generator. But, when I came across the Lister, as most of you here, I became fascinated, it was like apiece of working art, it was an awesome machine, I became addicted to it, I watched many utube videos of it, even researched the woodgas setup, that was built here in Ca. I became obssessed with it, even changed my PC screen to picture one. Thought I had it all planned out, the exhaust, anchoring, gen. head,drive,etc. To me the $$ wasn't a issue, Whatever it took I was going to get one. I had been reviewing post's here for a few weeks trying to learn all I can, and during this time I realized that if there is something I was missing, or didn't think of, some one here would let me know. That is when I decided to post. I was a few days away from shooting a large sum of $$ overseas. I wanted to lay everything out on the table so I could get some feedback one way or the other to make sure I wasn't making a mistake. All of the post's gave me information to work with. Bobs post were what I needed to hear the most, but not neccesarily what I wanted to hear, but I asked for honesty and the truth, thats what he gave with no B.S. Probably saved me a lot of cash and many headaches. I am thankful for that. And deechie, I did read your post before the delete and found it very encouraging, Thank you. There are many others whom have E-mailed me and I have expressed the same to them. I haven't left the forum, I still need some juice so I will be here to learn, trying to figure out what I need, and not what I want. After considering all the post replies, I came to realize that in my ethusiasm to share what I had learned, I posted some info that I probably shouldn't have. And I finally realized that the risks weren't worth this obssession I was having with the lister. Once I realized this I began to see the bigger picture and the consequences of what I had done. I felt foolish. But the worst thing for me was the idea that if someone else comes along like me, and used the info I supplied and ended up in some deep XXXX. It would be my fault, and I did not want to be responsible for this. So thats when I decided to go back and delete some of the info in my post's without really any forethought. Once I had done that, I took a look at the thread and the whole damn thing looked ridiculas and didnt make any sense at all. Now I really felt foolish. And I apoligize for deleting other members post, because there was lot of info that was sent my way that I wanted to check out, and I lost that too. Please, don't ask me how I done it. Still not really sure. All I know is I made the whole dang thread dissappear. Guess it was meant to be. Anyway I am still open to suggestions. The best fuel effecient Yanmar diesel on Central maine site was something I was looking at also, but it puts out only 4KW or 4.5KW something like that. I would like to be more around 7KW + . So now I am searching for the most fuel efficient diesel somewhere in that range. I guess its a start. Again I appreciate this community. Lots of good info and advice here and I thank everyone who posted on my behalf. And to Crofter I probably didn't explain exactly what I needed, just what I wanted. I knew that I wasn't going to get 10Kw out of the 14/1. I was just being greedy. All of the fuel consumption #'s I had was based on what I had read on the Central Maine site for thier discontinued 6800W lister which was indirect injection and I knew the direct did a little better (I THINK). This would have been perfect I believe for me, but unavailable. So, when I checked out the 14/1, My thinking was I would be running between 6KW-7KW with the direct injection which would be approx. 3/4 load and hopefully get close to 1/2 gallon an hour, or I would unplug something till I achieved that fuel consumption. Even If I ended up at 1/2 load or around 5KW to achieve those goals, I would still know that I had the ability or capability to run almost a 100% of my house if I chose to sacrifice my fuel comsumption. Even knowing that a diesel runs better under a load than not, I beleived that the reliability would increase by running a 14/1 at 1/2 to 3/4 load then a 8/1 or 10/1 at 100% load. But this is not by experiance, just assumption. Bottom line is I am here to learn. No one was disrespectful to me. I asked for some opinions and answers to questions that I had, and it didnt matter to me if I liked them or not, just as long as they were what the posting member believed from his experinces to be the honest truth!! In my professional field its all about justification, and no matter how bad I wanted to make this work, this community helped me realize that I just could'nt justify the risk, especially after I was strolling down FRONT street.Thank you LLF

[mobile_bob]

Ben

in all fairness to the board members, LLF did ask for our input, and at least as far as i was concerned, my feeling was to give him as
much info and a dose or reality,,, mainly because of one thing.

i like everyone else here also fell in love with the listeroid and had to learn she can be a cruel mistress.

also, LLF did ask for " frank" input.

after reading that he had worked mucho overtime to be able to come up with the cash to pay for this project, i just couldn't sit back idle
and let him go ahead and spend it without some further input.

i think he might have been far more pissed off at all of us had we known of the various pitfalls and just allowed him to find out for himself.

that would be very wrong in my opinion

sometimes we are faced with choosing the lessor or two evils, far better to run the risk of upsetting a new guy up front than sit back and watch him trade his "life blood" for something that on balance likely would not have been up to his expectations.

yes sometimes we might well come off as lording over a new guy, or as some sort of experts, or whatever, the reality is we don't see ourselves
as anything other than what we really are, that being guys that are constantly learning.

if we can't pass along what we either have experienced or learned, what good is a forum?

now in defense of LLF,  from what i can tell he is an intelligent guy, hard working, determined, and does his research, its just that he too (like we all have) fell prey to some rather dubious and questionable ad copy, that very likely would have made his project very unpleasant in the end.

i am only saying this because, i like most other bought into the absolute bullshit that was advertised about the indian listeroids back 5 or more years ago,  things like "these engines run for hours on a cup of fuel" "these engines if properly maintained will run 100k hours" "these engines are as simple as a lawnmower engine" blah blah blah....  we have all learned by virtue of varying degree's of hard knock experience that the reality is very different than the ad copy.  i bought into the hype too, and i at the time had over 30 years experience as a diesel mechanic, and should have known better!   the problem is the damn things look so cool, have such a hypnotic allure, and are sexy as hell, but just like a beautiful woman oft times we guys get a boner and loose all sense of reason, or what little we started with.

it didn't take long for those that were less than reputable to realize that we men would get all in a lather and buy the hype hook line and sinker, many of us did, with some having horrible experiences, some with fairly good experience and some with very good experiences. that in itself
only serves to complicate matters further, that being variable quality.

so while we may come off as harsh, we are only trying to help folks make informed decisions, nothing different than what you would expect from your best friend if you were to get drunk and want to elope with a gal that smells good, has nice makeup, and is dressed well, without knowing anything about her.

i really don't think anyone here meant anything but to be of help, at least from what i read anyway

bob g

[injin man]

Geez Bob,

I didn't think I was being that critical? was I?  Bunch a thinned skinned ole men.

My comments were more a reaction to Mike's comments, of course if you think I'm being
overly critical that was not my intention at all,just civility.

LLF was out in the open about his desire to get what appears to be Unobtanium
here these days and the chance to get one seemed the right thing to do for him.
I agree with you that the route and the product were a crap shoot and he certainly
benefitted from rethinking this project.

I bought a disassembled kit engine from Gary and
have completely disassembled it and will begin the process of rebuilding it, this was
part of the deal and I didn't need to ask as I'd read numerous times that the quality and
assembly are suspect. Others just need to be aware of the work involved in making them
do useful work and the potential pitfalls surrounding them. My only hope is to keep the interest
alive.

[mobile_bob]

injun man

sorry if it seemed that i leveled all that against you, again that was not my intent

most of my irritation if you will stems from years of bad info, hype and in some cases bold faced (how else can i say it) lies.

i should have split my response so as not to have it appear as though it was directed at you personally

95% plus was directed toward other facets and nothing to do with your comments, so i apologize for painting with a mop
when a pin stripers wheel might have been better.

as for being thin skinned, yes i am when it comes to faulty info from folks that should know better, its this sort of crap that continues
to lure in those that are unsuspecting and don't have good info to balance the claims against. 



btw, i look forward to your progress with the kit engine

bob g

[injin man]

Bob

I always laugh at myself first, the older I get the easier it is to spot the
ironies in my own life. Take our work seriously and never take ourselves
as such and the results speak for themselves. I know you and the other
guys here were trying to prevent a potential disaster and it worked. Hpoefully
LLF will get the system he needs to provide power for his family in times of
need.

Ben

[cognos]

I found value in that thread. It gave me information on real-world pricing and the logistics of actually getting the thing up and running in my garage.

The value, for me, is that now, if I see one for sale, I'll know a good deal when I see it.

It's kinda like wanting a Ferrari. If you've got the money, and just go out and buy one without knowing the frequency and costs of maintainance, and the "reliability", you may be in for a surpise...

But after you've done all the research, you may find a Ford Fiesta is a more realistic choice for a daily driver. (jeez, do ya think? )

If you still want the Ferrari, great, that's a personal choice, and you're now making an informed decision.