Nice Lister 10-2 setup

[veggie]

Here's a nice generator building.
Happy tune as well !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiWJtEpDLvo

Lots of work there. The owner did a nice job.

veggie

[mobile_bob]

nice soft resilient mounting too!

very cool, what country is he from?  guessing in europe somewhere?

bob g

[wiebe]

he is from the netherlands.

[Henry W]

Yes the mounting seems to be doing a good job. Forget about mounting those engines solid on a concrete slab. That person has the right setup.

Henry

[Apogee]

I emailed him inquiring about his mounting system.  I also requested photos.

We'll see if he responds.

Beautiful setup!

Steve

[DRDEATH]

Maybe real twins dont pound as much as clone twins??? DD

[wiebe]

If he dont reply to the e mail ,give me a try to contact him .
Dont now if he gets it ,ore has trobbles with it .

[Apogee]

I found this thread today and realized that I'd forgotten to post his reply...

Here's what he sent:

Greetings Steve,

The mounting system I used is from lining components, it's a finnish corporation. (http://www.liningcomponents.fi)
here are some pictures of the mounts, http://www.liningcomponents.fi/files/liningcomponents/LV-sarjan%20vaimentimia.jpg
The type of mounts I used is the 34LV10/120.

Kind regards,
Johan

[sailawayrb]

Those are very nice mounts.  I doubt that there is any engine that couldn't be tamed with a proper resilient mount system.  Proper means taking the time to understand the forces and frequencies and using the right mounts in the right locations.

Bob B.

[bschwartz]

Bob,

Regarding "I doubt that there is any engine that couldn't be tamed with a proper resilient mount system."
I would agree only if the engine is reasonably balanced.

My wobbly listeroid would rip normal engine mounts apart.  Yes, this means I have bigger issues.
My flywheels are the 6/1 style with cast in weight, and they are really out of whack.

When sitting on the ground, they roll with the weight at around 7 O'clock instead of 6.

[Lloyd]

Bob,

Regarding "I doubt that there is any engine that couldn't be tamed with a proper resilient mount system."
I would agree only if the engine is reasonably balanced.

My wobbly listeroid would rip normal engine mounts apart.  Yes, this means I have bigger issues.
My flywheels are the 6/1 style with cast in weight, and they are really out of whack.

When sitting on the ground, they roll with the weight at around 7 O'clock instead of 6.

bschwartz,

Take those flywheels to a marine prop shop, they can balance those things with ease.

Lloyd

[XYZER]

Take those flywheels to a marine prop shop, they can balance those things with ease.

Lloyd

To properly balance a 6-1 you have to disassemble it and get the weight of the piston, and the big and little end of the rod calculate the bobweight at the proper % for that engine. Then balance the rotating assembly. The Lister in the video looks like it does not need much of a resilient mount system to calm it down. If they are not reasonably balanced to begin with there is no mount that will "calm" them down other than the ton of concrete and good bolts. IMO

[sailawayrb]

One can't really completely balance a lister engine.  About all one can do is minimize the amount of engine unbalance (which is something one can and should do) and select the predominate unbalance force direction (vertical or horizontal).  This has been previously discussed ad nauseam and has been well accepted by those who are capable of critical thinking.

If you go with a resilient mount system, you definitely want the predominate unbalance force direction to be vertical.  There really isn't any unbalance vertical force limit that can not be easily handled by a properly designed resilient mount system since there are always resilient mounts that can be selected that will easily handle these vertical forces.  The only real limit is how much $$$ one is willing to spend to acquire these proper resilient mounts (i.e., resilient mounts that will adequately attenuate the vertical force frequency and also adequately handle the vertical forces that they will see).  

I think about the worse thing one could do is take a very unbalanced engine and just mount in it in concrete.  Sure, the engine will not move...but all those destructive unbalance forces are now reacting directly thru the engine structure and this can only result in part failures significantly sooner than if one had taken the time to minimize the amount of engine unbalance and used a well designed resilient mount system.  There is a reason why modern engines are much better balanced and only resilient mounting systems are used today.

One should not balance just the flywheels if one has counter-balanced flywheels.  The flywheel counter-balance is designed to minimize the amount of engine unbalance...when it is the proper amount relative to the piston weight.  India QC has caused this to be a random affair.  I get nervous when I hear folks are adding weights to flywheels to minimize the amount of engine unbalance.  I get nervous because adding these weights could cause increased dynamic loads and associated stresses in a section of flywheel that is structurally deficient because of casting flaws.  When one doesn't know exactly how much structural design margin one has to begin with, a wise person doesn't do things that could further reduce it.  Better to sort out what is causing the excessive unbalance in the first place and remove weight where necessary so as to not potentially cause a worse situation IMHO.

Bob B.

[mobile_bob]

BobB:

i can't tell you how much your assessment means to me as it relates to rigid mounting an unbalanced engine
(or at least reasonably balanced)

seems like i spent 6 months arguing the merits of resilient mounting and specifically the problems arising from
simply taking a shaker and bolting it to a ton of concrete, thinking this is going to make things all good.

during that discussion i received an email from a fellow in england that was a lurker on the LEF, he built up a
cradle/resilient mounted 6/1 using air suspension bags.  he sent me pictures at the time and the damn thing
simply floats as if on air!    i guess because it is floating on air.

he did not want the pictures released and i have honored that request.

while i am certain that air ride suspension components are not necessary, his use certainly illustrates what is possible.

having said all that, casting quality and addition of weights to the flywheels is not without certain risks.

all i know is this,, i am proponent of resilient mounting and a "huge" proponent of cradle mounting systems used in conjunction
with resilient mounts.

bob g

[sailawayrb]

BobB:

i can't tell you how much your assessment means to me as it relates to rigid mounting an unbalanced engine
(or at least reasonably balanced)

bob g

Thanks Bob G!  Yes, I recall those ignorant and arrogant discussions and days as well.  Sometimes you just have to do things yourself and totally disregard the preachers...

Bob B.