Load sensing grid tie inverter?

[LowGear]

Hi BioHazard,

I've decided that close is good enough.  I'm sizing our solar to about half of our average load.  The next installation will be the wicked waste whatever generator that will produce another 25+ percent.  For the rest of our power needs we'll just write a check.  If solar wasn't so darn expensive I'd just size it to 110% and feel like a wonderful giving sharing person.

This should soften the monthly cash slide, flow is just too soft of a word, help fight the oil cartels, provide backup power should we ever really need it and keep me off the street while I'm putting it together.  As much as I hate to write it:

"Grid Power Is Yummy."

LowGear

[BioHazard]

As much as I hate to write it:

"Grid Power Is Yummy."

LowGear

Yeah, those jerks have to go and create reliable, cheap power, and ruin all my fun! With my "time of use" billing system I'm not even going to try and bother running lights from anything besides the grid, since when it's dark is considered "off peak" and I'm only charged 4 cents/KWH. I don't think I could beat that if I hooked a generator up to a bicycle!

I'm starting to think about moving further out into the country though, and cut my ties with the grid almost completely. I'm really getting tired of paying the highest city water/sewer/tax rates in the country, and hey, power might even be unreliable out there!  

With today's overloaded power grid, I really don't understand why the power company is not more cooperative with cogeneration projects. Seems like a major answer to a problem we need to solve....

[mobile_bob]

one would think that with the politcal and financial climate these days, and with all the take talk about green jobs
we could get some stronger gridtie legislation put through

i wanna see a cogen bill, the power company ought to have to buy back all power produced by a cogenerator at the prevailing rate.

that would be a nice start i  would think



bob g

[billswan]

one would think that with the politcal and financial climate these days, and with all the take talk about green jobs
we could get some stronger gridtie legislation put through

i wanna see a cogen bill, the power company ought to have to buy back all power produced by a cogenerator at the prevailing rate.

that would be a nice start i  would think



bob g

Now bob you got to look at it from the power company's view.

If they had to buy the power at the prevailing outgoing rate and too many started to use them as a big free battery how would they make money?

I happen to know at one time the line foreman for 2 different electric coops. One is a distant relative. And they don't have a very good opinion of big wind generators that are going up in are area. The one sees these large gens (multi megawatt) as a direct competition to the local coops investment in a coal fired electric gen facility. He was quite sour about it actually. I know a few of the local farmers tried to ( I was one)  get a facility built on our land. And in talking to him I seen he would be no help. The relative also has a low opinion of such operations in his area. I pulled out of my group that was trying to get a wind farm built and I am sure glad I did as it has been a futile wheel spinning exercise. The hoops that are put in front of them ended up being impossible. A few farmers several years ago were successful and gave the locals the idea and the hope of copying the wind farms that were built. But it seems that big electricity owns the grid and they figured out a way to keep anyone out that is not of there liking. At least that is what I am told by the few in the group that will admit it.

Billswan

[Carlb]

one would think that with the politcal and financial climate these days, and with all the take talk about green jobs
we could get some stronger gridtie legislation put through

i wanna see a cogen bill, the power company ought to have to buy back all power produced by a cogenerator at the prevailing rate.

that would be a nice start i  would think



bob g

While we are able to sell our excess electricity generated by our solar arrays back to the utility, the utility only pays wholesale prices for the power.  When we true up in April I calculate we will have pushed our electric meter backwards around 7 to 8 mWh in the last year.

It sure would be nice to get paid retail for the power but that will never happen.  I guess I should just be happy to have a surplus and be able to sell the Solar Renewable Energy Credits for some good money.

Carl

[mike90045]

The bastards at the power company took my old spinner and gave me a meter that has it's own long distance wireless communications system, I'm sure if I sent any power backwards through it I'd be on the FBI's top ten list in a few hours. *sigh*

Actually, the digital meters total all the power going thru them, and bill you for the power you push out onto the grid.   You need a 2nd meter installed to get credits.

[Carlb]

Some digital electric meters total the power that goes through them no matter which direction it is going.  If you have one of those meters and you back feed the grid it will not go backwards it will just keep going forward. 

[vdubnut62]

That does not sound like a coincidence. Sounds to me like the meters were deliberately designed that way to discourage net metering, just another
unofficial roadblock.
Ah well, now I AM starting to sound like a conspiracy theorist.
Ron

[BioHazard]

Now bob you got to look at it from the power company's view.

If they had to buy the power at the prevailing outgoing rate and too many started to use them as a big free battery how would they make money?

I think "coops" are a bit different, but for some reason our local power company is all for people reducing their loads, and in turn, paying them less money. They often give out free compact fluorescent bulbs. There is a "public purpose charge" added to my bill every month, which they use to help pay for solar and wind projects. Around here it's almost like they would prefer I didn't use grid power...

Plus, with solar netmetering, there is a law that says the power company has to buy it all back up to what you use, they don't get a choice in the matter. We should have cogeneration laws too. The power company is the one who is always complaining about the grid being overloaded, and where I am in OR, california likes to steal all of our power for their air conditioning. Now they're trying to add electric cars to an already overloaded grid...

[billswan]

Now bob you got to look at it from the power company's view.

If they had to buy the power at the prevailing outgoing rate and too many started to use them as a big free battery how would they make money?

I think "coops" are a bit different, but for some reason our local power company is all for people reducing their loads, and in turn, paying them less money. They often give out free compact fluorescent bulbs. There is a "public purpose charge" added to my bill every month, which they use to help pay for solar and wind projects. Around here it's almost like they would prefer I didn't use grid power...

Plus, with solar netmetering, there is a law that says the power company has to buy it all back up to what you use, they don't get a choice in the matter. We should have cogeneration laws too. The power company is the one who is always complaining about the grid being overloaded, and where I am in OR, california likes to steal all of our power for their air conditioning. Now they're trying to add electric cars to an already overloaded grid...

Yes net metering exists here to. But you can bet the boys at the local coop don't like it. At least that is my guess as to how I was treated a few short years ago. Although the one line foreman that I referred to above is retired now and i have not talked to his replacement. Times and people do change.......

Billswan

[vdubnut62]

We have a Nissan plant here in TN. where the new Leaf is produced. NES (Nashville Electric Service) was worried about how the demand for charging these things was going to be met. It was said that since a  Leaf could use as much electricity as a small house while charging, they were planning
to identify where people lived so that NES could run dedicated power lines and transformers to meet the charging demand.
Well the Leaf went on sale, and so few were ordered, nothing else has been heard about meeting the electrical demand.
One more green idea that fizzled. I think a successful electric car is going to have to have at least a 300 mile range with the ability to charge just about anywhere you park it AND priced the same or cheaper than a conventional car.
And I just can't see that happening. Why not a very small diesel to charge the thing when its parked or running the batteries down past a certain point? Oh well, my opinion is just that, my opinion.
Ron

[BioHazard]

Yes net metering exists here to. But you can bet the boys at the local coop don't like it.

Yeah, they don't like it, but the state stepped in and said "YOU HAVE TO" because it just works better that way. We need the same kind of laws for micro-cogeneration. I can't think of a better group of people to help work towards that goal... Personally I don't think there are enough people interested in cogeneration for it to really bother ther power company's bottom line.

Honestly I've gone so far as to think about starting my own power coop... Seriously, I'm addicted to making electricity like some people are addicted to crack. 

[BioHazard]

As I research more and more on the power company's website, they often talk about using "paralleling switchgear" in order for large customers to seemlessly switch back and fourth from grid power to backup generator, like I want to do. If you have a >250KW backup generator, they will allow you to backfeed to the grid for monthly load tests, and even pay for the diesel fuel. They also turn them on remotely during times of high demand.

Does anybody know anything more about this "paralleling switchgear"? Is it just a fancy way to grid tie for a few minutes to avoid power interuption?

[wrightkiller]

http://www.gedigitalenergy.com/products/applications/PowerQuality/whitepaper%20-%20paralleling%20switchgear.pdf