arrow k series engine

[mobile_bob]

it looks like arrow has a nat gas engine, the k6 series

it is for all the world an indian petteroid, adapted for nat gas operation

i wonder how they managed to get approval from the epa on that one?

anyone got the scoop on this product?

http://www.arrowengine.com/products/Single_Cylinder/K_Series.php

bob g

[injin man]

Looks like they copied the Listeroid to me. Since it runs natural gas it
probably wouldn't be a big pollution problem.

Wonder what the price is for one them there engines. If this was the
price is right I'd guess 10K +.

[mobile_bob]

its a copy of the petteroid, not a listeroid
from what i can tell so far they get 5 grand for a 4.8hp 900rpm nat gas engine.

thats a big pile of dough for a sub 5hp engine, no matter how long it is supposed to run.

bob g

[Apogee]

i wonder how they managed to get approval from the epa on that one?

bob g

Well, since big oil owns the govt in this country, the exemption isn't unexpected...

Hell, it wouldn't surprise me if they were importing them from India from one of the top grade manufacturers!

Nice engine!

Steve

[BioHazard]

Didn't someone post the cost of having an engine cirtified? Something like 20 grand + a few test engines I think? Arrow must have enough cash for that, that's probably one engine order. I notice it doesn't say "EPA approved", I wonder if it actually is? If submitted to the right place, I'm sure it would be really easy to make a natural gas engine "emissions compliant".

[Henry W]

It seems like a well built engine. But the price?

Henry

[injin man]

its a copy of the petteroid, not a listeroid
from what i can tell so far they get 5 grand for a 4.8hp 900rpm nat gas engine.

thats a big pile of dough for a sub 5hp engine, no matter how long it is supposed to run.

bob g

Sorry, my brain was having a semi-silver moment there, btw George is discussing this engine
@ utterpower also, someone was asking about it.

[veggie]

The Arrows are allover the place in the Texas, Colorado, and Alberta oil fields.
Very popular pump jack engines.
Made to run 24/7 (and good at it too !)

veggie

[injin man]

The Arrows are allover the place in the Texas, Colorado, and Alberta oil fields.
Very popular pump jack engines.
Made to run 24/7 (and good at it too !)

veggie

So, are they building them with Indian Parts or are they US Virgins You don't see
them south of Dallas because there isn't hardly anyplace here that you don't or can't
get grid power to.

[mobile_bob]

that k series is no arrow design, it is pure petter/petteroid

bob g

[veggie]

Basically a heavy duty diesel converted to run on NG.
Burns super clean.
Rated for 24/7 duty on Natural Gas.
Operates at 800 rpm or less.
Perhaps one of the best small Co-Gen ready machines available.

brochure below.....

veggie

[injin man]

that k series is no arrow design, it is pure petter/petteroid

bob g

Don't see the word India or Petter anywhere in the literature.

[sailawayrb]

i wonder how they managed to get approval from the epa on that one?
bob g

I don't know much about these engines, but I like what I see.  Running on NG (CH4) or propane (C3H8) is certainly environmentally friendly (i.e., from the combustion by-product exhaust perspective ...perhaps not from the perspective of how one creates the NG or propane).  As long as you have plenty of oxygen (O2), the only combustion by-products from NG and propane are carbon dioxide (CO2) and water (H2O):

CH4 + 2 O2 --> CO2 + 2 H2O

C3H8 + 5 O2 ---> 3 CO2 + 4 H2O

I have never been a big fan of vent-less NG or propane stoves before because of one's natural and inherent fear of potentially deadly combustion by-products such as carbon monoxide (CO) resulting from incomplete combustion, however, I did purchase this 25K BTU propane stove as a cheap, backup heat source to our grid fed electric forced air furnace in our remote southern OR property single-wide:

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200362091_200362091

At the time, this stove was on sale for $199.  As long as you don't improperly install it in a confined, air restricted space (and new stoves have an O2 sensor that will shutoff the stove if there is insufficient O2 for clean combustion), it works absolutely great.  Being vent-less, 100% of the heat generated stays in the dwelling.  

I went with multiple 30 LB propane tanks so I could fill them myself cheaply in town when required.  The four propane tanks are connected to a DIY manifold that feeds a RV regulator which feeds the stove.  The manifold can be configured to isolate each pair of tanks (to allow the RV regulator to automatically switch between pairs of tanks when one pair becomes empty) or to allow all four tanks to feed the regulator (in order to have a sufficient propane vaporization rate to feed this 25K BTU stove if the outside ambient temp were to reach -10 deg F).

The fact that the stove humidifies the air is actually welcomed because the air is typically very dry at our location and the electric hot air furnace makes it even worse.  And the wife loves it, which is great too.  Anyhow, someone might find this propane setup and stove to be a worthwhile application and asset too.  Sorry for getting off topic

Bob B.

[mobile_bob]

from what i have heard, remember and figure

several years ago, preban days, when there were many engine importers, there was this guy named Doug Waggoner iirc that was his name
he sold listeroids out of sand springs oklahoma (suburb of tulsa)  at one point he was also importing and selling the indian petteroid engine's

now the mini petter had a bad rep for runaways, (governor problems) but the petteroid design is clearly superior to the original listeroid design
and the larger engines were designed to run at speeds ranging from sub 1000 rpm and more typical 1500 and 1800 rpm for generator direct drive
applications,  these engines had more trouble selling because they were more expensive, and they had the same quality issues (sand mainly) that
all the listeroid had and still have.

sometime after the epa reg change, mr. waggoner sort of dropped off the face of the earth no more engines to sell.

fast forward to today, and we find mr. waggoner working for arrow engine's tulsa, oklahoma and he is in charge of the k-series sales

the k series is definitely a petteroid, what we don't know is whether they are assembled in india or whether arrow has setup a shop to build
them in india, or imports parts to assemble here, whatever the case they apparently have modified the engine sufficiently so that it can be ran
on nat gas, and have gotten epa certification for this engine for use in the oil fields.

there really can be no doubt that this is what has happened, the engine is a relatively new offering from arrow, and is a dead ringer for an indian petteroid
engine.  if it were truly an arrow product the cost would be well over 5 grand, likely upwards of 10 grand. cost of production of a new engine in this country  for a rather niche market would be astronomical.  even at 10 grand a copy they would probably lose money on them.

so for them to sell for 5 grand tells me there is an indian connection in the mix, thats the only way you can build an engine, fit it with spark ignition , nat gas carb and all the related crap and pay for the epa certification of the engine, and hope to make a buck in profit.  just think of the company overhead that must be met, that alone probably is a significant portion of the sale price of any of their engines.

in closing the arrow company picked the better of the two possible engine's from india, that being the petteroid

bob g

[Apogee]

We need to do some homework.

Makes me wonder if there is an exemption in the law for oil field use.

I'd love to see their customs paperwork.  I wonder if they're buying all the parts from India and assembling here in the US.  It would guarantee no sand that way and they'd have no importation issues just bringing in parts.

I wonder if there is an EPA exemption for oil field engines built in the USA.

Steve