Any recommendations on a welder?

[Randybee1]

Brief history first: I have a 220 v stick welder and a 220v MIG welder. I have never used a 120v.  My brother wants to get a welder. I told him to get a stick welder first to get the hang of things, then graduate to a MIG. He likes that idea, mainly because a stick welder is massivley cheaper than a MIG and its gases.. and the cart.

My question is: What do you guys think of the 120v stick welders? My brother does not have 220 in his garage and he is waiting for me to wire it in for him. Right now it'll probably be this summer before I make the 6 hour drive to his house. So, in the mean time I was thinking he should get a 120v stick welder. I do not think he will be doing any major welding work, just fixing things like mower decks and maybe welding little gizmos and such onto his farm tractor.

So, what's the verdict? Get a 120v now... or wait till next summer and get the 220V?

Thanks,  Randy B

[bschwartz]

For cheap and easy 110v, I'd suggest a flux wire feed.  They are easy to use, no bottle to worry about, and MUCH easier to learn than stick (I think).  The stick is good for heavy stuff, but for mower decks and thin things like that, I use the wire.

HF has them cheap, like this:

http://www.harborfreight.com/90-amp-flux-wire-welder-98871.html

I have a Miller Thunderbolt 225 (220v stick) and a Millermatic 130 (110v wire feed).
I use the wire feed more often, as it is easier to move around, and weld in tighter places.

My two cents.......

[XYZER]

I have to agree.....MIG with 110v would be very handy for a non welder type. 220v Stick would be the best for welding heavy steel but I will always go to my MIG for 90% of my welding.

[mobile_bob]

i don't think he will ever be happy with a 120vac stick welder, it is a tough thing to use

however a small 120 mig such as the hobart handler 120 (available used for around 200-300bucks) runs on 120vac
can run flux cored wire (which is better than a stick, but not really good on gauge metal) or gas shielded (much better)

running .030 wire the little machine is a capable welder for up to about a quarter inch

if you shop around you can find one used for 300 bucks with bottle and regulator.

bob g

[DRDEATH]

I had to learn to weld with a stick. Thats all there was for a farm.  Stick welding works good. Now if I had the chance to start over I think mig welding would be the way to learn. Its so much easier. You can learn the technique of managing the puddle and just what angle works best. then later use a stick welder. Good luck. DD

[Crofter]

What Mobile Bob said as applied to no joy with a 120 stick for a beginner weldor! 

DD, I have burned a few ton of welding rod and done a fair bit of instructing and I find that very often someone who has done just a bit of mig welding is spoiled by never learning arc length control and rod angle. I would rather start them on stick; though there is no question that they can get some semi usable skill quicker with mig than stick. Once spoiled it is hard then to get them to go back and pay attention to the basic principles. They want to spray and pray (that something sticks)!

For limited bucks you can get more usability out of mig. Unless you can get a stick welder that will give you DC and at least 125-140 amps you are stuck using those quivering little 1/16 or 5/64  rods that would be a challenge for a seasoned welder.

[Tom T]

Any chance he has a 220 generator ?  A stick is the only way to go except for new metal fab if you are re welding or using old metal stick is the best way to go and a lot stronger.TomT

[LowGear]

Hi Randybee1,

Read between the lines.  Those that have the option of "Stick" vs "Wire Feed" most often chose Wire Feed. 

Not all brands or suppliers are created equal.  AND if your brothers garage is wired as badly as mine was when I moved in the 120 volt welders are just going to piss him off and most of us don't need any more education in that discipline.  I'm shopping for a 240 volt wire feed even though I have run #6 out to the new sub-panel.  Beginners and weekend warriors really need good equipment to carry them over the river of knowledge and experience. 

Get a Kill-A-Watt (SP?) and check the voltage drop in the garage when a 1500 watt space heater cycles through on the other half of the receptacle.

Casey

[Ronmar]

Plus 1 for a 120V mig.  Good useable model that is readilly available is a Lincoln weldpack 3200HD.  They are onteh shelf at your local home depo for around $350.  That is the current equivelent of my older lincoln weldpack that I have been running for many many years.  I can stick weld, as well as several other disciplines, but the mig is the go-to, as it is just plain easier to use, particularly when assembling and tacking a project together.  As mentioned, you will want to make sure you have a higher amperage receptacle for it's use.  i installed a specific 20A rated receptical in my garage specifically for the welder.  Unless you are building larger impliments, most projects don't use greater than 1/4" steel anyway.  The ONLY complaint about mine, is that I wish it had a little higher duty cycle, for when I really get into a project, but experience has tought me how to divide my efforts to keep up a steady acceptable weldin pace without overtaxing the machine.  220 would eb better, but for part time projects, my 120V welder has served me very well.

[Carlb]

I have a lincoln 170 amp 240volt Mig and I have used it for everything up to 3/8" with no issues at all both with flux and with gas (i use gas most of the time because it makes a much nicer weld and there is no slag to clean).  I would go with the smaller 120V Lincoln as suggested above. They are reasonably priced and from what i have heard a good machine.

[Randybee1]

Thanks for all the input guys, I'm actually thinking of buying this for my brother for Christmas because... well I'm just one hell of a nice guy   I'm going to look into the Lincoln even though in the back of my mind I keep thinking he oughtta learn on stick first!

Randy B

[BioHazard]

I've never been that great at welding, and it's been a while since I've done any, so I'm kinda...rusty. I learned with an arc welder too and it's still my preference by far. I have a HF 120v wire feed welder and it is a peice of crap. I've used some fancy Miller MIG machines, but I'd still rather use arc most of the time.

Right now I'm looking for a nice old gas powered arc welder, with huge amps. Arc welding is the only acceptable method on a lot of important structural things. And I HATE having to buy welding gas.

[Crofter]

Lincoln SA 200 is one of the best. It was used by the thousand on pipeline. They hold their price well though, so not cheap. Occasionally you get a bargain on one that the motor is baffed. A few were made with aluminum winding for a short period so avoid these. There is lots of info on the web on every aspect of repairing them. To me they are a much better welder than any of the little high rpm wannabes that claim the same output. A lot nicer to listen to also.

[sailawayrb]

Thanks for all the input guys, I'm actually thinking of buying this for my brother for Christmas because... well I'm just one hell of a nice guy  I'm going to look into the Lincoln even though in the back of my mind I keep thinking he oughtta learn on stick first!

Randy B

Well then...you need to get him a 240V Lincoln tombstone arc welder and a 120V Lincoln 140 flux core welder (that could be later upgraded to MIG).  The latter would get him addicted (so as to motivate him to properly wire his shop) and handle the light stuff well; and the former would teach him how to truly weld and handle the bigger stuff.  

Actually, I think the best combination would be the aforementioned Lincoln arc welder and a 240V Lincoln 180.  The 180 can handle a wider range of thickness and will also be able to perform outdoors (using flux core) in the middle of a windy field if necessary to repair a tractor, etc.

Bob B.

[mobile_bob]

here is another option,

keep an eye out of an older miller AEAD le 225/200 AC/DC gas drive welder,
they came with onan twins, ran at 1800rpm for 7kwatt 60hz 120/240vac
or would provide 120dc at 3000rpm which was welding speed, and would produce 225amps AC, or 200amps DC
at 100% duty cycle.

they can be found for an average price of between 500-750buckis, and as low as 200bucks (i got one about 6months ago
on craigslist)

then he has an excellent welder, a reasonable speed genset and it is reliable and hard to beat.

or,

you can find an older linde 225 mig welder for about 500 bucks, it will do up to 225amps mig and will damn sure weld anything he is man enough to attempt. everything from short arc to spray arc.  although he will need a welder plug in the garage on at least a 50amp breaker, 60 if you want to go into the spray arc region.

if i could have only one welder it would be a tough call between the stick and mig mentioned, the stick would win out only because
it also can generate power and is truely portable and can run nickel rod for cast iron repair. otherwise the mig see's the vast majority of welding done is most shops and the lions share of the work that is likely to need done.

i wouldn't stick my nose up at a good used miller or linde welder, rather i would be all over one if i needed a welder.

the lincoln sa200 pipeline welder is about the industry standard for portable welders, and if the engine is well maintained it is unlikely
a guy could ever kill one save for driving it off the end of a dock into the ocean. the only down side is they are physically quite large
and heavy, filling the back end of a pickup truck for the most part

bob g