Diesel engine bans

[mobile_bob]

sort of like indy cars these days

not sure if it is still the case, but i remember the year every car had a leased honda engine in it!

might as well turn nascar into the old IROC where the only difference in cars was paint color and driver.

bob g

[cognos]

I have nothing against NASCAR, it was just an example. AVGAS - as used in small planes - also still contains lead, and lots of it.

The US open-wheel series are ethanol. Used to be methanol.

Cheap labour bites us twice... why I say it's our own fault, is that we - in the first world - are responsible for pricing ourselves down to third world standards... it's our own fault for greedily wanting things that, if produced by our own neighbors and friends in first-world factories that pay living wages with first-world safety and environmental standards, would be more expensive... but since they are cheap, we buy lots of them. And toss them just as quickly.

The again, what's more expensive - an out-of-work middle class that can't afford to pay the taxes required to keep our countries running, or waiting to save up a couple extra weeks for something we want, while keeping our own citizens employed? Maybe if things were a bit more expensive, we'd think twice about purchasing trinkets made of irreplaceable resources...

Just my opinion.

We'll see more of this shortly. I see small two stroke/cycle engines in the gunsights... replaced by more emission-compliant 4 strokes. Right now, we have total-loss lubricated 4 strokes (use premix gas, just like a 2 stroke) in some equipment from Stihl, Echo, Shindaiwa, etc. - we'll see more... there are more passing through research daily...

[BioHazard]

So, if I understand correctly - the listeroids are banned not because they are too dirty, but because nobody has been able to clear one with the EPA? Like if Yanmar wanted to start selling listeroids in the US, they probably could? (with enough cash)

Does the EPA look at gasoline and diesel engines differently? How does Harbor Freight get away with importing supposedly CARB/EPA approved 2 stroke generators for just $49 each? Did they have to go through the same approval process a diesel would need to? As far as I know I can import those generators too, if I want to buy the minimum container load.

What about importing shortblocks and/or "kit" engines? Is that legal? I remember several years ago when the EPA made Briggs and Stratton stop making their famous 5hp flathead engine, the go kart racers who used them were really upset. So B&S started selling the engine in kit form only for go karts, for several more years.

Or what about having the manufacturer of a listeroid put a sticker on it that says "for use with natural gas only"? That's honestly what I'd like to use one for...

[cgwymp]

So, if I understand correctly - the listeroids are banned not because they are too dirty, but because nobody has been able to clear one with the EPA? Like if Yanmar wanted to start selling listeroids in the US, they probably could? (with enough cash)

Hard to say. I doubt Lister/oids have ever been fully tested to see if they would comply. If they did comply, then yes, I'd expect they'd be legal to sell.

Does the EPA look at gasoline and diesel engines differently? How does Harbor Freight get away with importing supposedly CARB/EPA approved 2 stroke generators for just $49 each? Did they have to go through the same approval process a diesel would need to? As far as I know I can import those generators too, if I want to buy the minimum container load.

I wonder about how well HF is complying. They may find themselves in a situation like this:
http://green.autoblog.com/2010/05/14/pep-boys-agrees-to-pay-5m-fine-for-selling-chinese-made-atvs-m/

That said, is the little generators really are CARB/EPA approved, then no problem.

I'm certain there are different, specific rules for spark-ignition engines vs Diesels, since the exhaust products are different....

Or what about having the manufacturer of a listeroid put a sticker on it that says "for use with natural gas only"? That's honestly what I'd like to use one for...

Apparently that dodge doesn't work. My 'roid says "biodiesel only" but apparently that's not enough to allow continued importation. I doubt that a sticker saying NG would be any different, unless it could not be made to run on any kind of Diesel.

[BioHazard]

This is one of the main things I wonder about, these air cooled chinese diesels aren't hard to find:
http://cgi.ebay.com/10-HP-Air-Cooled-Launtop-Diesel-Engine-/220705130222?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33630d06ee
And this one claims to be EPA approved. I don't understand how that can be imported cheaply, yet something like a Changfa cannot?

The MFG of the harbor freight 2 stroke generator claims it is EPA/CARB approved. They don't seem to be a "big budget" kind of place. Actually the EPA/CARB approval adds $10 to the generator that isn't required elsewhere. I'm not sure what the difference is. They also sell their own air cooled diesel, I'll ask them if those can be imported.

[cognos]

Does that little 2 stroke have a catalytic converter? A cat can very easily and cheaply clean up a gas engine's exhaust quite effectively, through a range of performance. Much more difficult to do on a diesel.

[BioHazard]

No, no cat on the 2 stroke.

[cognos]

Reason I ask, is, I just bought a backpack leaf blower, Echo 770, and all the 2-stroke backpack blowers I looked at in this range of performance all had cats. The exhaust out of this thing smells quite different than the rest of my older 2 strke stuff, even with the same oil and premix ratio. And it's quiet, too, none of the old ring-ding sound.

[BioHazard]

Yeah, I've heard of some of the major equipment MFGs using cats now, that's why I'm so surprised the little 2 stroke generator is not only EPA but CARB approved without one! Smells just like my 1973 2 stroke outboard. That little thing has got to be putting out more pollution AND using more fuel for every kilowatt hour produced, than a listeroid!

[veggie]

Engines below 50cc are subject to a different set of standards and cannot be compared to the engines we use for co-gen.

The EPA is not targeting Listeroids as many people suggest. Their rules cover ALL engines entering the country from Asia, Italy, Turkey, Britain, India, and any other exporters.

Changfa spent the money to get their air cooled diesel approved.
These engines are available for import.
http://en.changfa.com/ehibition/ehibition_default31.asp?pro_id=282

Not as suitable for cogen projects but there is a huge market for industrial and farm equipment.
Hence, this is where they spent their money.
Perhaps with a little ingenuity, these diesels could be used in some micro-cogen applications.
On one 3kw system I built, one of these engines was slowed to 2000 rpm and it was quite smooth with considerably less noise.

During the purchase of a previous batch of R185NM engines, Changfa informed me that they are NOT currently pursuing EPA approval for the water cooled S185, S195, S1115 etc...series.

veggie