Missing thread and paper gaskets

[mbryner]

So, the thread about the Changfoid for sale in Portland, OR, and our adventure to buy it has disappeared.   I can only guess I accidentally hit the delete thread button, but then it would make me confirm.  Oh well.   Just thought it was strange.   I only found out when my F-I-L said he couldn't find his first posts...

Anyway, I'm reassembling the 6/1 tomorrow.  There are several gaskets I don't have, such as crankshaft end housings, between cylinder and crankcase, etc.   When we were up in Washington visiting George Breckenridge, he  suggested just using paper built up to thickness.   What do you all think about using construction floor-underlayment paper, aka craft paper at the lumber yard?   I have lots of it left over from laying hardwood floor in my house.   It is impregnated with tar and would seem to be a good thickness for this application.

Marcus

[bschwartz]

Should work great.  I've made gaskets from manila file folders that haven't leaked.

[TimSR2]

Kellogs corn Flake boxes have been a mainstay of mine for 30 years.  Even better---Hanging file folders! What a great idea bschwartz has! They are not shiny on one side like the cornflakes boxes, should be much better. So the permatex will stick on both sides. Brilliant!

Get yourself a 8 ounce ball peen hammer to force cut them in place on your iron castings. On aluminum castings the hammer just is used for marking, and an Exacto Knife for final cutting.  A leather punch is handy for punching bolt holes.  Or you can use prussian Blue and scissors..  or chalk and scissors, or .....  it's not really that hard to make your own common gaskets.

[mobile_bob]

harbor freight used to sell the gskt hole punches, they may still have them

the little ballpeen hammer is known as a "Felpro" hammer to truck mechanics.

felpro used to be a manufacture of ill fitting gskts back in the old days, thankfully they
are among the better today, but the name for the little hammer stuck.

btw, you can buy gskt paper in rolls or off of bulk rolls at autoparts stores, at least the better stores

there is a high density paper that is gray in color, it holds up much better to hot water/antifreeze when
cardboard has a tendency to seep.

another nice thing to have is spray gskt adhesive, or DA glue used by bodymen on their sanders,
it sprays on and is tacky enough to hold the paper in place while you peck out the new gskt.

if you stick the paper down you can peck out the perimeter inside and out, and also all the bolt holes with ease.

bob g

[SteveU.]

Hi MarcusB.
No don't use the tar inpregnated paper - the tar is engine oil soluble - makes a real dripping gooey mess - oh yeah I do know from being poor, young and dumb from 28 years ago. 
Yeah tap imprint out a gasket and use an automotive oil/coolant proof spray gasket adhesive on the one-use only gaskets.
On gaskets like the inspection doors use heaver stock and coat seal it with auto grade UltraBlack RTV, let it touch cure for an oil tight reusable gasket.

Regards
SteveU.

[mbryner]

Thank you all, especially SteveU.   Now I know not to use tar impreg. paper.    So, I'll just use a heavier stock paper (Emily says we have card stock) and I bought a few tubes of Blue RTV from Wally World tonight.   Since I got these replies after I went shopping, I'll try the spray adhesive next time.  The Listeroid should be running again tomorrow.   

[SteveU.]

You are very welcome MarcusB.

Hm.
The blue RTV works very poorly with some coolants - turns gummy.
Both the blue and red common RTV's with some engine oils and combustion contaminets will leak.
I've only found that the Permatex UltraBlack and UltraGrey to come close to being a do-all RTV IC engine sealer versus the better specific dealer stuff. Dealer RTV sealers are in 2-3 different formulations to be proof against thier specific coolants, engine oil, autotrans fluid and gear oils.
Learned this all the hard way having to redo leaker/seeper jobs over the second time for free. Third time in for leakage and you'd were out of a job completely. Won't say I never had a leaker - too many old, distorted surfaces to seal under too many poor shop temperatures and humidities combinations pushed back into service without a proper overnight cure time to be able to say that. So I was only ever 99.9% sucessful.
YMMV
SteveU.

[SHIPCHIEF]

I used the Permatex grey water pump and thermostat housing sealer on the cylinder studs where they thread into the bock deck. These holes are thru drilled, and cooling water can leak past the studs into the oil sump.

[vdubnut62]

Marcus!! For the love of Pete  man!  Card stock indeed, hrumph! Don't you have any Cornflakes, Saltine Crackers, or Old shirt boxes lying around?
Let your inner Redneck/Hillbilly run free!
Ron

[TimSR2]

I never use tube silicone gasket stuff on paper gaskets. Just the red or gold high tack spray. Red for general service and the copper colored stuff for extra gap filling. The red High Tack will hold your gasket nicely for the hammer cutting process. Silicone just makes a big smeary mess.

Never, ever ever use silicone unless ABSOLUTELY necessary.   I use silicone only as a gasket replacement using the skin technique,  or for corners of v8 intake manifolds, corners of timing cover to pan gaskets, things like that.   Reason? nothing sticks to silicone, even silicone will not stick to silicone. The amount of work it takes to prepare a previously siliconed surface to get a seal is just not worth it.

I like Permatex High Tack  spray for positioning and cutting, anything to do with paper gaskets. The red spray, it is available by many names. works great on threads too.   I love the Hylomar or Permatex grey gasket maker for case to case fits, like motorcycle blocks and outboard split cases. The grey is not actually silicone as far as I know.  I used to use Gasgacinch but I think it is obsolete now.   Copper  impregnated High Tack spray for ill fitting gasket joints, or for reusing  any gaskets , including head gaskets  when new gaskets aren't available or you just have to get the unit back in service NOW .  It is a problem solver when you are in a pinch .

 I use the RTV high heat  red rarely, and only on exhaust applications like 80's GM v8's when no exhaust gasket was fitted.  RTV blue is the racer's friend, great for replacing any gasket you don't have in a hurry. But without perfect surface preparation it is hard to get a long lasting seal out of it. And fuel eats it right up. In fact all silicones are not fuel proof, and they never have been. So contact with contaminated engine oils will cause them to fail.

[mbryner]

OK, so all these comments about silicone have got me worried.   I was able to salvage most of the original paper gaskets.   So far I've smeared RTV Ultrablack on one side and I'm letting it dry.  (Yes, SteveU., I did go back and get RTV Ultrablack this a.m.)   It really would be nice to have reusable gaskets.   How many of your wives help you cut out gaskets?   Mine did!      

So, no I didn't get it back running again today, but I did get every piece clean with soap and water, then Brakeclean, then WD 40.   Took most of the afternoon.  The more things I took apart, the more metal frags I found.  Got the new TRB shells into the housings, too.   Maybe tomorrow night I can get it back in one piece.   I expect the hardest part after making gaskets will be getting the timing right.   Have never done that either.   Luckily there are just a few mechanics here for when I run into trouble.   

Marcus

[bschwartz]

I used the black RTV on my crankcase door gasket, and have removed it and installed it probably 20 times without leakage.  Granted mine is a 6/1 which has inherent vacuum which helps prevent dribbling (from the engine) 

[mobile_bob]

i use a lot of silicone in my trade and have done so since the mid 70's
i gave up on all of it save for the permatex ultra gray Steve alluded to.

that stuff will stick to anything, and form a tough leak proof seal, however
if you are using it on a thin gskt, do so very sparingly

it like all rtv sealant can cause a thin gskt to squirt out under pressure and rip

so if you use it on a gkst, just grease the gskt ever so lightly

and for what is is worth, never use any kind of sealant on a rubber gskt or seal
it is a guarantee that you will have it squirt out, if it is rubber put it in dry as a popcorn fart.

ymmv

bob g