Simple Backup versus Triple Redundancy

[SteveU.]

Hi All
I though this would be and interesting topic to kick around given light of recent events.

Some things in life I've found that I'm satisfied with just a single simple backup: Ha! Ha! I do actually only wear one belt and one pair of supsenders at a time. 'Course I do have 2-3-4 different combinations of these.

Most of the time however I have on critical things found myself gravitating throughout my life to triple redundancy pattern.
Whenever the primary fails and I have put the backup into play then my mind always tells me, "You no longer have a Backup any more!! If your now in use piece fails you gonna be so-o-o S-O-L!" I am German  . . . mostly. German military philosophy is to always have a Reserve. Once this is committed they will scrounge create another.

So for the 94 Ford pick-up I keep Senior locking the keys into, first a under frame magnetic hide-a-key seemed OK. Then once after using this backup I forgot to put it back. Well the next time  . . . So now have a key in my billfold too.
Way back when I used to travel the dark and dangerous places learned well to split up the money on my person three different ways: one to visibly use and quickly give up; one to back that up and a third stash for when things had gone very bad to hopefully always have s-o-m-e-t-h-i-n-g. First time having to beg a Western Union transfer from a relative and have to explain my where and why taught me the need to triple up.

So Hydro GRID is my primary. Ha! Ha! Only fails me 2-3 times a year. Unless in the heating season mostly we ignore and adventure it. 8 months heating season here - so heat with no electricity needed wood - the electric furnace IS the backup to this. And the travel trailer propane system backs this up.
Need one big chainsaw for the big stuff for fire wood. One smaller chainsaw for limbing and the smaller stuff AND to cut out the big one out when pinched trapped. Ha! Ha! Had to buy the wife a Girls saw too (she insisted) and this backs up both of these. Used to be some years in cold frozen December out cutting us a Christmas tree I've had to go through two of these to the third to get one to start - wife won't let me store one warm and ready inside. Finally one year had to hand saw it. What for many would have been the first step was my step four - unacceptable! Chainsaws then got replaced with new ones one by one.

Think about it . . . you happy with just a simple backup? Or been caught with your pants down too?

Regards
Washington State Steve Unruh

[mobile_bob]

Steve,

you just had to bring up the topic of redundancy didn't you!



i had figured on two 195 cogen's, or a least one primary cogen and one backup genset built on a 195, plus...

a 175 powered cogen for the months where the extra heat made by a 195 is unneeded, such as a bit of late spring
summer and a bit of early fall.

to that i have a 4kwatt kohler motorhome genset, cause you just gotta have a genset that runs on gasoline as an alternate
fuel.

of all the units, i fear the kohler might well prove to be the most reliable, if not the most efficient because it is certainly built to
a highly refined standard.

then i just have to have spare engines up the wazzoo

however after today, my whole offgrid future will take a marked change.

bob g

[Crofter]

Bob, that last line of your post is very ominous sounding.

The listeroid and ST5 supplies the workshop power and is backup for the house if we lose the grid. I do have a new 1500W 4 stroke portable as last resort but am putting together a very small solar with battery and inverter for emergency lighting and communications. I am not too vulnerable to being without power as I can heat and cook entirely on wood. Next summer I do want to install manual water pumping capability.

Hardly the poster child for independent electrical power, I am more inclined to being able to do without it as comfortably as possible but that doesn't fit everyone's situation.  Where something is absolutely essential I like multiple backups since I am weak in the area of "faith" 

[cschuerm]

Welcome to the redundancy anonymous meeting.
My name is Chris and I'm a German anal-retentive redundancy nut too.
Yup - multiple chainsaws, string trimmers, wood splitters, hvac units, coffee makers, water supplies, generators, etc.

All critical power in the house on UPS units.  Whole-house fully automatic White/Hercules 100Kw diesel on an Asco 7000 switch.  Dual 24/2 Listeroids which can be manually transferred in case of an extended outage where I don't want to feed the big White and don't need the extra power.  I WILL NOT be deprived of my morning coffee!!!

Chris

[rl71459]

Hmmm... Let's see,

1, 12kw Diesel Gen. 1, 10kw Gas Screamer. 3, Shitty Chainsaws. 1, POS Line Trimmer.
1, Honda Pressure Washer. 1, Old Gas Truck, 1, Old MBZ 190D. 2, Crappy Lawnmowers.
1, Sweet (Baby) NewHolland 4WD.

I'm not German. I Dont Drink Coffee.
So I guess that makes me "Double Redundant" and "Triple Anal-Retentive"  

Rob

[Crofter]

One place I found I really needed redundancy is tape measures. Getting to the age where too much time is spent looking for it if you only have one. There was a sale on them at Home Hardware and I went and bought 6 and spread them around where I play.

If you ever once drop your only spare outboard shear pin in the drink you will never feel at ease with only having one backup of anything!

[veggie]

I have always felt better when I have a redundant (or even triple redundant) system.
I too live where the temps can get to -40C and the winters are 6 months long.

-House heat is a Natural Gas Furnace
-Redundant system is a wood stove which heats the whole house nicely
-2nd redundancy is the Listeroid powering the NG furnace in case of power outage or electric heaters if needed.
-Backing up the Listeroid is a spare engine and a lot of spare parts.

People look at you funny until the crap hits the fan. Then you're a genius 

veggie

[mike90045]

prime: 3KW PV array via Morningstar 60A MPPT charger

1) Listeroid (which isn't bolted down or wired in yet)
2) Honeywell 2000w inverter gen feeding an IOTA 84V 15A charger
3) Generaic 5000W 240VAC feeding the same plug as the Listeroid does.  Plug wired to input of XW 6040 inverter, which charges batteries

[BioHazard]

I'm about the only one who wishes the power would go out more often. I can honestly say my power hasn't more than flickered in at least 10 years, and I only pay 10 cents/kwh. Most the power lines are underground, and we've got many, many different power sources to choose from here in OR. (hydro, gas, coal, nuke, wind, garbage incineration/landfill gas...)

I just have a weird fascination with generators. Using one for cogeneration is about the only purpose I have for one. I WISH I had a need for an auto start 30kw standy gen that I could play with for "testing" every month, but around here that's laughable for most residential settings. That's why everybody thinks I'm crazy....

[vdubnut62]

Rates here in TN are  8-10 cents /kwh but they vary monthly. UCEMC on google will get the power co's website and rate schedule,
if anyone is interested.
I'm looking harder at co-gen all the time! I just wish I had done much more research before getting my feet wet, I would probably
taken a different tack with the project. But as things are now I have a great big backup genny that makes people wonder about me.
That's the part I like, keep 'em guessing!
Ron

[XYZER]

Most the power lines are underground, and we've got many, many different power sources to choose from here in OR.

Where in OR are you Bio?

I suffer from the same disorder....2-listeroid 6/1's, 1- kubota z482 6000w, 2-generac 5000w gassers, To be finished Kubota 12hp single w/4000 watt Winco+160amp 12v Leece Neville. If the power goes I will be faced with which one to activate! I caught myself looking for a Miller gas welder. Should I get one with 3phase output?!

[Shipo]

Here is my list... quadruple... N+3

  1- Changfa 195/10 –  70wmo/30diesel
  2- Onan DJE 6kw turnkey with 30gal diesel tank attach  – straight diesel -
  3- Yanmar TS105c - 5kw  (next in line)
  4-  Power inverter  1800w with  4  C&D UPS 12-475  in parallel 


I'm ready now for a hurricane....

[mbryner]

Yeah, someone else in OR!

[Tom T]

We have enough problems in Oregon with out the Hurricanes twisters and sand storms to deal with. I live South of Portland about 45 miles. Iam set up though 20kw sr2 and two much to list. Tom T

[XYZER]

We have enough problems in Oregon with out the Hurricanes twisters and sand storms to deal with. I live South of Portland about 45 miles. Iam set up though 20kw sr2 and two much to list. Tom T

TomT......about Salem? I'm about 60.....Albany