My new website for thermal storage, listeroid, new house, off-grid power, etc.

[sailawayrb]

Hope this isn't a Hijack....but which version of Chief Architect are you guys using? Will Lite do it or does one need the professional? I use cad every day but not the Architectural type. I played with an old version of something on 5-1/4 inch disks, it was a bit clunky....but that was some time ago...

I happen to be using Chief Architect Premier X3.  However, Lite will do nicely too.  Both will allow you to easily design a house, play with it in 3D, and ultimately create construction drawings and materials list.  If you have not already, watch the video tour that's on their website:

http://www.chiefarchitect.com/

Many of the cheaper house design tools only do floor plans and don't have the capability to do construction drawings.

[DRDEATH]

Marcus that is just awesome. At one time that was my dream but as everything in life goes things change. I have been researching shipping container structures. There is a lot to be said for them. Very strong and can be super insulated covering inside walls. As far as outside it could go either way. If you leave outside alone not much could damage it. I am just in the begining stages. My house I have now is paid for and I am to the age I dont want a big house payment again. I still like a lot of you other ideas which I always thought should work and it seem you have proven it. Good luck. Mike DD

[rl71459]

I'll Second that. Marcus, What you have done, and continue to do is at minimum Awesome!

I am very Impressed! Keep up the good work!

Rob

[mbryner]

Again, thanks for the nice comments, guys.

DrDeath, I, too, looked at shipping container structures.   Not for the house, but for structural inside the barn, or for a cellar, or for lots of other ideas. 

Rumor has it that there are underground dwellings using shipping containers around here.   I've heard someone used a few in a U-shaped configuration underground, with just the ends sticking out of the hillside.   I thought that would be cool, but when I did research too many engineers say that that is too dangerous.   They're built to be strong at the corners for stacking but the weight of all the dirt on the sides and bottom would collapse it too easily.

I have a 40 ft container.   It has served well.  It was the very first structure I put out here.   We could fold down the tractor ROPS and extend the backhoe and it would fit cozy inside.   In the back I put heavy duty shelving from Costco along the sides.   

The biggest problem was condensation on the inside.   In wintertime it drips continuously.   About a year ago, I used a torch to cut holes in the top and sides and installed vents.   The condensation is much improved but not eliminated.

Marcus

[NevadaBlue]

I finally got two 20 foot containers here. They will be the north and south walls of a new barn.

I wouldn't be afraid to bury a container WITH proper reinforcement. The walls and roof are corrugated, that is big ribs. Adding proper rebar reinforcement and taking advantage of those ribs, then pouring a concrete cap and walls would make a great bunker. The container itself is such a wonderful weatherproof box, the concrete and burial would make them a really fine underground space.
I'm building a regular concrete block 'fruit shelter', no way to move a container into the hole I have.

[wrightkiller]

http://mha-net.org/docs/v8n2/wildac09.htm

[Jedon]

I designed our house with Chief Architect as well, v9. I then gave the files to a drafter who ported them over to AutoCAD and made the final plans.

[sailawayrb]

I designed our house with Chief Architect as well, v9. I then gave the files to a drafter who ported them over to AutoCAD and made the final plans.

Jedon, did you end up building your house yourself too?  If so, did you also get an OR contractors license and did you find the materials savings to be worthwhile?  I am taking my exam next month in Medford.  I figure if nothing else, it will allow for better negotiating and more binding contracts for some of the labor intensive elements I may subcontract out, like the hydronic foundation/slab concrete work.

Bob B.

[mobile_bob]

BobB

and anyone else that is contemplating being their own general contractor

don't automatically dismiss wholesale distribution of materials, yes they are supposed to only sell to licensed contractors, but

if you go 50 miles away from your place of construction and assure them that you will never tell where you got the materials, often
times they will give you wholesale prices on all sorts of stuff.

i learned this when it came to replacing 10 roman columns on a late queen anne victorian home i resurrected back in the early 90's

the best price i could get locally was 400 bucks each, i went 58 miles to the manufacture, plead my case, and they sold me all 10 for under 200 bucks each, provided i never told anyone where they came from.

as tough as the building industry is right now and will continue to be for the next few years, there is no reason to pay retail for anything
where there is a wholesale or manufacture located within reasonable distance.

at worst you might get a business license and a sales tax number, both of which cost pennies in the scheme of things, then when  you go to the wholesale house you have what they will ask for 99% of the time, just be sure and tell them to charge you sales tax because the stuff is going to be used for personal consumption,,, this makes for clean and honest tax reporting. which makes life easy.

fwiw, i bought about 100k dollars worth of materials for just a bit over 40k dollars for that house.

everything from plywood, shingles, torchdown, trusses, columns, 24carat gold plated chandeliers, leaded glass double entry doors w/prehung and hardware, plumbing and wireing supplies,, concrete and blocks, and mountains of #1 clear cedar.

bob g

[Jedon]

I acted as Owner/Builder for which you do not need a license and I was able to get contractor prices on everything just by asking.
I subbed out the work to various people but had one guy do most of the work up to rough in ( besides the foundation ).
Check out http://ownerbuilderbook.com for more info on acting as your own general contractor.
One thing I learned, have good contracts with everybody and get everything in writing and crack the whip on subs.
I'm in California not Oregon, not sure about the laws up there.
I'm sure the savings of doing so much myself was huge, not using an architect saved me a lot etc.

[sailawayrb]

Bob G.,

Agreed and exactly right.  One can certainly negotiate for practically everything and practically everywhere, and it often takes very little documentation (often just a business card is sufficient) to buy wholesale.  For this project, if I can't get what I need within about 30 miles, I will have to go much further out than 50 miles.  The owner of Medford Truss, an ex-aerospace engineer, highly recommended getting GC license although he said he would be happy to work something out in any event.  The main advantage I see in having the license is having CCB and OAH to assist with addressing any subcontract disputes.  As you say, it is so easy and cheap to obtain, there little down side in doing it.

Bob B.

[sailawayrb]

Good to hear Jedon and thanks for the link and your experience feedback

The last house I did myself as Owner/Builder saved me at least 70% of what it would have been otherwise.  Getting the plumbing and electrical bought off took longer than it should because the WA King County inspectors seemed to drag their butts when it comes to working with Owner/Builders.  OR has some regulations that apparently affect your resale ability if you go Owner/Builder that I don't fully understand but which also convinced me to just get the license.

Bob

[mbryner]

I sure wish I'd done what sailawayrb is doing.

[sailawayrb]

I sure wish I'd done what sailawayrb is doing.

Hi Marcus...please elaborate more when you have a chance?

Thanks,
Bob B.

[mbryner]

Well, you know we just moved into our new house.   Our contractor gave us a estimate which is what the house loan from the bank was based on.   Now at the end of the project, our contractor is so far over budget it's unbelievable.   The portion of the whole project that was his was $xxx K, which included the foundation, subfloor, interior framing, painting, finish work, electrical, plumbing, etc. etc.   Stonemill, the log home company, supplied the logs and set up the watertight house shell after the logs and supplied the Kolbe & Kolbe windows for $160k for the 2600 sq ft house.  Stonemill, the chinking company, and the foundation/block wall subcontractors came in at or under budget.   All the parts of the house that I did myself came in at a small portion of the estimate.   For instance, the wood floor, deck railing system, and cedar deck decking were all way under budget.   Emily (my wife) got all the plumbing fixtures and light fixtures, door hardware, etc. from the internet at great prices, again at under budget.   I did all the research on the wireless lighting system, researched and bought the on demand water heater and all it's required parts and vents, designed parts of the plumbing system including the grey water system, etc.   I even dug some of the trenches w/ my backhoe.   My contractor and most of his subs came it at 2x, yes 2X !!!, over budget.   The contractor and subs say I did a lot of things that weren't in the plans, like elaborate tile in the kitchen and bathroom and extra deck, but we didn't add $250k worth of extra stuff.   The contractor would say "this is the way I would do this and it will only cost a little bit more" and I believed it.   (Of course, I wouldn't have been able to get more money from the bank anyway because of the whole large acreage and off-grid thing.)

My point is, I did a lot of the design work, research, planning, and some of the actual labor myself -- the same thing I'm paying a contractor to do.     As far as I'm concerned, his job is to coordinate the subs, negotiate w/ them to keep me within budget, and keep other material and labor within budget.   Why else does he get 10% contractors fee?   Now I have a dream house I've struggled to  get into, and will struggle to pay for, built on our dream land.   I've had to borrow a heck of a lot from family.   If you can do the owner/builder thing, that's definitely the way to go.   At least don't ever get into a "cost plus" contract.   It can just eat you alive without any recourse.    If any of you have experience as contractors, builders, owner/builders, I'm all ears.    I just don't understand how you can tell someone you can build them something for one price, and then charge them double that through the whole project down to the very end.     My contractor (and his wife who handles the financial side) were our friends until just a few weeks ago.     No open house for them either, now.   Some people have said that it's because of the MD after my name.   Can you tell yet that we're pissed?   Build it yourself if you can.   If you can't build it yourself be your own contractor and hire your subs at a bid, not hourly rate.

Marcus