Catastrophic engine failure

[mbryner]

Getting this 'roid back in service has been quite complicated.  We drove up to Seattle to get a crankshaft from George Breckinridge, through the snowstorm that's all over the news.   Should have been 7 hours each way, but took *much* longer.   He had the bearing shells, rod bolts, and TRB's as well.   He is one heck of a nice guy.

The most recent obstacle is getting the connecting rod and end cap machined.  The local machine shops can't handle con-rod's this big (!).   Yes, they got mangled by a chisel getting out the burnt bolts and shells.  Luckily my father-in-law found a big truck stop about 30 minutes away that can do the job.   Now to see if they will get it done before Thanksgiving so I can start rebuilding over the holiday.....

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!   Hope you are enjoying it with family and friends.   Even with engine failure, recent pneumonia, and new house overbudget and over-dates, there is a lot to be thankful for.   God is good....

Marcus

[Ian]

Marcus - unless the big end cap has only been cosmetically damaged (in which case there should be no need for a machine shop....) you may be on dodgy ground with ANY machining to the end cap and/or rod. Maybe the best solution is to get hold of a new rod and cap. Not what you wanted to hear.....

Any change to the fit of the cap to the rod COULD change the geometry of the shells when assembled. The rod and cap are precision machined to ensure the shells are "nipped" and the correct loading applied circumferntially when in service. The big end and shell combination in association with the crank pin is probably THE most critical interface on these engines after the fuel pump and injector.

Your machine shop will really need to know what they are doing if any material is removed from the cap or rod.

Having said that, these machines are designed to be serviced in the field and are tolerant of small geometry defects and adjustments with a hammer. Make sure the machinist really knows the implications of his actions before you let him loose on the metal.

I guess if I were to write a book on the subject - my advice would be the only tool you should use on the rod / cap combination would be limited only to a hand file - and even then - only to remove dings and high spots and burrs.

HTH

Regards,
Ian

[SteveU.]

Hey MarcusB.

I have a new connecting rod assembly with a wrist pin.
Want I should send this with the valve set? ( Finally found them again)

Shame I did not read this before T.Holiday UPS/USPS day off.
And I was out on I-5 milepost 52 northbound with a friend broke down in the storm too.
Br-r-r-r. Was 8F here this morning.

Regards
SteveU.

[mbryner]

Hey SteveU.,

If only I had known.   George couldn't find a connecting rod in his stash of parts, so he told me to machine the old one and it would be fine to put back in use.   The machinist didn't call back tonight, so I guess I won't have the 'roid back until next week sometime...

[SteveU.]

Hm-m-m
I'll ship it out to you UPS Next Day irregardless on Friday along with those spare valves. The new Victory Gasworks shop is next door to the main area UPS depot.
Use it if you need it. If not, I'll get it back sometime on a visit. Might as well sit around with an actual engine user.
Happy Thanksgiving Day to you and Yours
SteveU.

[rcavictim]

Marcus,

Are we to understand that you are relying solely on a small 3600 RPM Home Dumpo type consumer generator at the moment for power?  How is that working out for you?  Do you run it continuously or do you have it charging a batteries/inverter setup?

Good luck getting your 'roid back on-line.  Nobody needs the hassle you are going through right now.

[mbryner]

@SteveU:  Thank you very much.   Do you have my address?   1430 Andy Griffith Dr., Grants Pass, OR 97527

@rcavictim: Yes.  That was my backup plan to the 'roid.   Luckily today is sunny and the solar panels are working hard.   With all the cloudy weather we were running the 3600 rpm gen for ~3 hrs/day because the batteries were always low.

[rcavictim]

@SteveU:  Thank you very much.   Do you have my address?   1430 Andy Griffith Dr., Grants Pass, OR 97527

@rcavictim: Yes.  That was my backup plan to the 'roid.   Luckily today is sunny and the solar panels are working hard.   With all the cloudy weather we were running the 3600 rpm gen for ~3 hrs/day because the batteries were always low.

I did not realize you had a considerable solar array.  That is excellent!  Future dream of my own.  Trying to implement the wind option to battery bank to inverter here first.  Have batteries and inverters in hand now.  Just need to install/wire. Have diesel/waste oil backups in place finally now.  Good luck.

[SteveU.]

Hi MarcusB
Parts on their way. "Guaranteed" 3PM delivery Saturday the 27th by USPS.
UPS was still T.holiday closed before their Christmas push and FED-EX out would have needed another 10 mile drive to the nearest manned station.
SteveU.

[mbryner]

Thank you very much SteveU.  It arrived yest pm.  I owe you.  But I had already picked up my newly machined connecting rod, torqued and plastigauged to 2/1000ths to the new crankshaft.   Wished I had known you had one before I took it to the machine shop last Tues.   Would have saved $143 !   Oh well.

[billswan]

Thank you very much SteveU.  It arrived yest pm.  I owe you.  But I had already picked up my newly machined connecting rod, torqued and plastigauged to 2/1000ths to the new crankshaft.   Wished I had known you had one before I took it to the machine shop last Tues.   Would have saved $143 !   Oh well.

143 $ my gosh I am astounded by to days machine shop charges!

I do have to ask if the shop machined the big end so as to not need any shims to get the oil clearance?

Billswan

[mbryner]

$100/hour !!!

They put in 2 equal shims on each side, per my request, so as it wears the shims can be removed.

[mbryner]

Hey y'all,

Got the 'roid back together tonight.  Lots of smoke but no fire.  Found not enough compression on the lead squish test.  Took everything apart again, removed some shims between the cylinder and crankcase (twice), finally got the correct approx 0.050 clearance.  Put everything back together again.  Still won't run.  Still just smoke.  Squirted a little starter fluid in air intake, and that worked but it wouldn't stay running.   Tried again with starter fluid and it bounced against the compression (I wasn't cranking fast enough) and then tried to run in reverse.   Needless to say, that's scary, even if it only fired twice in reverse!    Yes, I know starter fluid is bad, but I was trying to troubleshoot.   No air in fuel lines.  Must be a timing issue.    I don't have marks on my idler gear, camshaft, or crankgear.    Used utterpower's "injection lobe at 10 o-clock position when at TDC" trick when assembling.   Maybe I can just advance the injector at it's adjustment?

Marcus

[billswan]

Doc

I am sure the group will need more info.

Do you have an accurate set of TDC marks on one of the flywheels?

And did you spill time the pump with those marks?

When you crank it over does it feel right compression wise? Or does it turn more easily like low compression?

Are the valve clearances set correctly? Do you hear any leaks in the intake or exhaust or crankcase when you crank it?

Does the exhaust valve close and intake open as the timing marks for TDC pass or is this relation ship seem off? Please excuse the poor wording I admit to not being a word smith!

Is the sound of the injector like it was before the overhaul?

You could pull the injector and hook it up to the high pressure line and check the pattern, use caution, you should find a narrow long mist without drips before or after the creak.

Good luck!!

Billswan

[bschwartz]

If you have smoke, that means you have fuel.  Since you already checked compression, I'd put money on incorrect cam timing.  In my 6/1, I've had the cam off by a tooth, and I could adjust the injector to compensate to get it running, but it SURE DIDN'T run right.  My experience has been that if the timing is late (retarded), it cranks over really easily, but won't fire.  If timing is early (advanced) cranking seems harder, and there is valve/piston interference visible by rocker assembly moving (shaft and all).  Sorry to say as it can be a pain, but my vote is recheck timing.