Backup Generator

[Henry W]

You got that right. It would be worth somthing if I can save just one of those 2-stroke gensets from having a short life.
Hell, just let the people run the oil they want. If it wears the rings, scores the piston or seizes up than we have more to write about.

Henry

[mobile_bob]

Henry:

your suggestions are not lost on me, i care about my little gennie even though i have a 2 year extended warrantee.

i am much more apt to take your advice than that of others anecdotal evidence because you use 2 strokes in your business
and have done so for years, anybody that goes through the amount of fuel you do and do so in a variety of equipment has
a lot of standing with me.

if you only ran one piece of equipment, and then only used it infrequently then i would take your advice and balance it against
all the others of similar service and experience, however this is not the case as you are far away the most experienced with the use
of a variety of equipment that is two stroke powered.

the fact that you were an amzoil distributor and did your own testing, then concluded that it was a waste of money and might well have been causing damage (overheating) speaks to your integrity and carries extra weight with me as well. far too many people, especially those that that distribute some special stuff are so in the tank that they will continue to hype a product even though they know it is not quite what it is purported to be. it takes an honest distributor to admit that his miracle oil is not what one should use even though the manufacture says it is the best thing since sliced bread.

i for one will buy the recommended oil, for the difference in price (if any) it just seems like cheap insurance to me?

just the fact that it also has a fuel stabilizer included in it makes it all the more desirable to me as well.  i figure i will use the mix to
run through my 4 stroke mower before i put it away for the winter,  the hope being that it will help to keep the carb  alive and well
till next spring.

bob g

[LowGear]

Mix, mix and mix some more before pouring has been the message I've heard. 

That Kmart $13 a gallon stuff is still awfully tempting compared to Echo or even the blue quart bottles at the marina - $24 a gallon. 

Casey

[Henry W]

Guys, I just got done retrieving this from my old computer for you all.
This should help what to look for when buying 2-stroke oils for air cooled 2-strokes or water cooled 2-strokes. Still follow your manuals recomendations though.

Henry

[SteveU.]

Henry thanks for the good 2 stroke oils informations. The no ash/low ash now makes sence to me.

I used ~25 gallons of mixed fuel in three Stihl weed eaters in the last 15 months with 40F to 109F air temperatures. This is $1300 USD worth of equipment.
I used ~35 gallons of premix fuel in four different Stihl brand of chainsaws in the same time period with winter temps in the 7-15F and summer useage up to 90F. This is $2000 USD worth of equipment.
So for a bit over one gallon ~$25 USD Stihl branded oil bought from the local dealer to prove warrantees on the newest of these I bought my warrantees. Pretty damn cheap warrantees, eh!

In the same time frame I spent the same ~$25 USD on 6 quarts of Castrol 5-50 full synthetic to run 100% with 2-3 changes each in all of the 4-stroke aircooled for ~100 gallons of gasoline used. ~$3000 worth of equipment there protected.

All of the watercooled equipment gets non-synthetic top current spec seasonal weight oils. (plus 1/2 quart of the Castrol 5-50 synthetic per change out - yes I wear suspenders with my belt)

So for the price of ONE paid for gasoline vehicle Quik-Lube, or ONE diesel vehicle self done oil service I protected all of my loved easy on the arms and back 2-stroke stuff.
All of the inherited and given to me TC-W stuff went into a 275 gallon tank of 18 year old thin stove oil to run it out through the last year of the rental house oil furnace wanting thicker more lubricating #2 furnace/diesel fuel. Wanted to keep the expensive 90 PSI pressure delivery pump lubed and protected.
Sigh. Just inherited another box full of mixed brand bottles of this TC-W stuff - who wants to pay postage on this stuff??

Regards
Washington State Steve Unruh

[Geno]

I've read the 2 stroke oil posts carefully. I still like the results I've seen with my Belray oil but I will run the recommended oil at the recommended ratio in my brand new Husqvarna 372XP X-Torq. It should be here Tuesday. I've wanted a more powerful saw for a long time. Maybe I'll take apart/modify the old 029 this winter, it's a great runner and I'd like to see what the insides look like.

Thanks, Geno

[rl71459]

My Friend has a Husqvarna Chainsaw. He Loves It! Says its a real runner!

Back in the day... My brother had a Husqvarna Motocross Bike. It was Bad Fast. Man, Those were the Days!

Ok... I'm sorry... I'll shut up now!  Maybe it's because I'm watching the nascar race.

Rob

[BioHazard]

It is under 2 bucks per bottle for a 2-1/2 gallon mix.

You realize that adds 50 cents a gallon to your fuel cost, right?

i for one will buy the recommended oil, for the difference in price (if any) it just seems like cheap insurance to me?

Why do you need three insurance plans on the same peice of equipment?

By the way, bob, what is the "recommended" oil for this generator? According to the manual "2 cycle oil". That's it. No specification what so ever. That means anything you find that says "2 cycle oil" on the bottle is the recommended oil.

High RPM and high dollar chain saws really have nothing to do with this low speed cheap crap generator. I don't know why we're comparing them? Your expensive chainsaw is no more alike this generator than my outboard motor. My chain saw idles faster than this generator at full speed.

[cognos]

Speaking of backup gennies, I bought one of these today at the local Canadian Tire. Made by Kipor, branded as a Champion. 4 stroke, inverter, 900 watt continuous, 12 volt connector included for batteries, "smart" throttle, very quiet after I opened it up and tightened all the shrouds and put the insulation back where it belonged... before I did this, it buzzed like a swarm of large angry bees... it could use a better muffler, it sounds like something is rattling inside it... but the rest of the unit appears very well designed... beats the Honda for price at $1100 for the same performance. For all I will need it for, I will save the extra $700...

$349, and I had $70 in Crap tire money, so it was around $330...

I put Pennzoil 10/30 in it, FYI...

http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/6/Tools/ShopEquipment/Generators/PRD~0998035P/Champion%252BInverter%252BGenerator%25252C%252B900W%25252B1000W.jsp?locale=en

[mobile_bob]

easy there my friend, i am not taking shots at anyone here, i only am stating that i will go with what Henry has suggested and use
a current quality oil made for air cooled 2strokes rather than use something i am unsure of, or oil that is made for high performance, or water cooled engine's, and i will save my money and not buy synthetic oils either.

i will just go with whatever echo uses as that is a quality air cooled engine oil, and the same mixed fuel can be used in my trimmer as well.

i suspect this little gennie might well tolerate other oils, but for the difference in price and what my intended use is for the gennie
it probably amounts to less than a couple bucks a year, and it might well amount to less than 10 bucks over the lifespan of the gennie anyway.

another point, if i may

just because the gennie engine only runs at 3600rpm does not mean it is under less stress than a typical weed eater or a chainsaw
the gennie might well run for hours at or near full load, whereas a weed eater is an on again off again proposition, and in most cases so is a chainsaw. even professionals rarely run their saws/trimmers etc at or near full load continuously for several hours at a time, without some timeouts where the load is reduced and the thing can cool down a bit.

it might be that the gennie engine is under more stress than a typical weed eater or chainsaw, when it comes to thermal issues.

generator service can be much like marine or aviation service where there is long periods of near full load operation, and as such things can break more easily, or so it would seem to me.

bottom line to me is this, it is doubtful that any of us will be using the harbor freight units for anything other than emergency use, for several hours/days after a storm or for very intermittent use powering a drill or saw out in the yard, or maybe to power a tv while camping?  probably fewer than 5% will ever be worn out, most will probably be neglected to death between uses.

as for why would i want to double insure the unit?  

the way i see it is the manufactures warrantee should be to cover defects in manufacture or materials, not my ignorance

the use of a quality aircooled 2stroke oil from someone like echo even if it cost a bit more than the generic stuff is what i look
to as a measure of insurance against my ignorance.

if i choose not to follow the direction of others with more experience with 2strokes than i have, and i have a failure it seems like
i would be abusing the intent of the harbor freight extended warrantee.

doesn't seem right to ignore advise and just tear it up just because i can, or run the risk of doing so?

but what the hell do i know?  i am just a diesel mechanic.



bob g

[TimSR2]

Two strokes, sigh...... I love two strokes. And I understand them.   And they love me back. 

There are two kinds of two stroke oil, currently. There is 'low ash' for the air cooled engines. (Honestly there are so few air cooled's available nowadays that you might as well just use  OEM  oil.) I only buy Stihl equipment and Stihl oil.  Note that Stihl wants 89 octane for their gear now. That means premium fuel only. Sure the fuel and oil cost is high but we are only talking <10 gallons a year here....  And they are light and wonderful and screamy and start so easy and .....sorry I digress.

Outboards want 'no ash' oil, that is to say TCW3. If you have any TCW2 throw it out or burn it in your Lister, or add it to your older  tractor or Ford diesel or GM 6.2  as a low sulphur lubricant but don't even think about putting that stuff in a two stroke outboard. It was a disaster. Thousands of people lost engines over that crap. 

The original TCW is safe to 50-1, if it hasn't separated out to clumpy goo from old age. The ESSO brand seems to be the worst for that. I buy all the old  TCW I can get and mix it into my TCW3 to max 25% , then burn it all up in my Johnson 2 strokes at 60 to 1 .  Yes, 60, not 50 to one.   No problems after thousands of hours service. 

TCWII is the reason 4 stroke outboards got a foothold in the industry!  At that time  (+/-1992)  that TCWII was specified, most of the moderate to heavily used two stroke outboards carboned up and stuck their rings and died....Most within 3 to 500 hours. The marine industry won't talk about it but it is true; it happened.  Don't even think about using TCWII  in your 2 stroke gas engine!

[Henry W]

That was also about the time when ring free additive was pushed by outboard manufactures.

[BioHazard]

So today I was contemplating how to make a water jacket for the cylinder on this little 2 stroke generator. So far 30 trouble free hours on my second generator!

I noticed that a magnet just barely sticks to the cast iron? cylinder. Strange. Does that indicate a high nickel content...or something else a little more fancy than plain old iron?

[Carlb]

So today I was contemplating how to make a water jacket for the cylinder on this little 2 stroke generator. So far 30 trouble free hours on my second generator!

I noticed that a magnet just barely sticks to the cast iron? cylinder. Strange. Does that indicate a high nickel content...or something else a little more fancy than plain old iron?

Doesn't it just have a cast iron sleeve in an aluminum cylinder?

[Crofter]

Maybe it is not cast iron. If you actually do manage to get a water jacket to seal around that cylinder you may be creating a different thermal expansion relationship. Think "cold squeeze piston scuffing"