Electro Magnetic Generator Damage - Discussion

[veggie]

In 1989 an EMP storm knocked out some transformers in Quebec.
The magnetic wave induced a large enough current in some transformer windings that it overloaded the coils.
The storms that NASA is predicting in 2013 are potentially much stronger.

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2009/21jan_severespaceweather/

http://science.nasa.gov/media/medialibrary/2009/01/21/21jan_severespaceweather_resources/quebec.jpg

So, where does that leave us with the field windings in our generators?
The very machines we built to protect from grid outages may be fried.
Our old style diesel engines will run, but the gen head windings may be toast.
Do we need to wrap them with foil until use, or build a small faraday cage around them.?

Food for thought and discussion.
I for one am taking this seriously in late 2012 - early 2013

veggie

[ndavid79]

I may be wrong, but isn't it the long lines of the grid feeding the transformers/generators that actually collects the energy that damages said equipment?

I know thats how nearby lighten damages equipment.

[Crofter]

Ssshhhh! dont say no more before you build up your hoard of tinfoil! dont buy too much at once either!

My guess is the ST style and such will be OK but transformers with a high ratio could suffer breakdowns. Haven' read anything recently but there is apparently some fairly well substantiated expectations of increased activities in the next few years. The more hi tech. we become, the more vulnerable we become.

That Stuxnet virus that infected Iranian installations might have been beamed down, ya think?

[mike90045]

The basketball size coil of wire, is not covering a large enough area to collect enough energy to damage it.

If you leave all your cords, cables and feeds connected, THEY will / may collect enough voltage to cause damage, in proportion to their length, distance to pulse, and susceptibility of the gear attached.

I think I recall hearing even some RR tracks were damaged from the induced current flow of hundreds of miles of metal.

[vdubnut62]

Huh! Wonder if the metal roof on my house will cause it to burst into flames? Should I ground it to earth?
I too take the threat of solar flare/emp seriously. Why else would I decide to build a co-gen system?
I'm hoping that we get some sort of early warning.
Ron

[Burt]

I have wondered if sheet lead (like roofers use for flashing chimneys) would be good protection if over digital electronics.  Anyone know?

We have a friend who works in a missle base in Wyoming.  He is not in on the top secret stuff, but networks the supporting computers.  He just said that some years ago we had FOUR separate lines into Wyoming for communications...TV, telephone, internet, and I can't remember.  Anyway, he says it is now down to ONE major line for everything.  So, while we have concern for our private power generation, if the poop hits the fan, it sure sounds like our national communications are in a bit of difficulty as well.

[LowGear]

I'm pretty sure electrical conductors for data has left the building.

Casey

[RogerAS]

EMP shielding will only work with conventional electrical devices if these devices are as isolated as possible from the pulse wave(s). This means any antenna, internal ground or power cable be removed from the device for full protection. Yes the lead sheeting will work, but so will copper, silver or any highly conductive shield. Such a shield needs to redirect the absorbed power of the EMP to some source of ground as rapidly as possible (low resistance) while isolating the internal device from this shield so that no transference, or arching, takes place (high resistance). A thickly plated silver over ceramic/glass box with a good ground would be ideal. Lead would be more effective against the gamma and x-ray burst of a line of sight exposure to a high yield thermo nuclear detonation.

Nearly equally devastating would be the atmospheric explosion of an asteroid (Tunguska, Russia, 1908). It's only a matter of time before another such asteroid comes along. Reports from that event in 1908 tell of the sky glowing for several hours/days afterward. I'd bet money that if the technology existed then they would have detected a rather large EMP spike, and the glow they saw was extreme altitude particulates interacting with the earth's magnetic field, and reflecting sunlight.

As for the communications system employed by our (USA) nuclear forces we may rest quite assured that redundancy, technology and extensive testing have addressed these issue very well indeed. Maybe some of the 60's military info is now declassified and could help us protect some systems from EMP, whether that be naturally sourced or from a rouge detonation. There were experiments that involved detonating nukes in space, and these produced EMP's that whacked Hawaii. The data from those detonations might be available, somehow.

RS

[veggie]

Apparently the proper way to protect from this phenomena is to use a Fariday (sp ??) shield/cage.
An example of one is your counter top microwave cooker.
The part that you look through has holes smaller than the wavelength of the microwaves so they can't escape.
One suggestion I read was to keep an old dead microwave around so that you can store any valuable items that contain magnetic data.
(eg: credit cards, back-up hard drives, etc...)
After 2013, send the old cooker to the recycle bin.

veggie

[LowGear]

Hmmmmm,

Another case for the container building concept all tied to ground.

Casey

[cognos]

And don't forget the tin foil hat. Just in case.

[BioHazard]

Is this something that would effect modern cars? Or are they already protected by the rubber tires, steel body, and relatively short wires?

[RogerAS]

Is this something that would effect modern cars? Or are they already protected by the rubber tires, steel body, and relatively short wires?

A severe EMP would cause 99.9% of all cars to stop running. The ignition and engine management systems would become toast. Replacement parts, stored in unprotected warehouses, would also be toast. High energy EMP's are bad news for anything that uses/manipulates electrical power.

RS

[cognos]

To be fair, in my limited experience and understanding of such things, it is unlikely that an event such as a solar flare/coronal mass ejection, such as the ones in the past (that we have data on) which have have been large enough to disrupt power grids, would be unlikely to have any effect at all on electronic circuits in one's car or computer... a CME large enough to damage a chip would be an immediate threat to life on the sun-facing half of the planet, so one would have bigger problems...

The detonation of an atomic bomb can cause large EMPs that could fry your chips. And your fish. And your DNA.
My electronic circuits would again be far from my mind in the unlikely event that something like that should occur...

[veggie]

Although NASA felt it was serious enough to issue a warning to Governments, Utilities, and businesses a few months back.

veggie