Listeroid genset anchor scheme

[mike90045]

OK, I should have floated this here a month ago, but the plans ended up happening very fast, and here's what I've got.

Listeroid genset, on a I beam frame, bought as a unit, and there seems to be no good way to anchor it down.  My metal buddy came up with this scheme, of straps to go over the existing I beam frame, trapping it in place.
The I beam frame sits on a rectangle of plywood, which is on top of a 1" thick rubber stall mat.

We plan to drill 6" into a 8" slab, a 1" hole, and use SIMPSON anchor bolt epoxy to secure a 5/8" di,  8" length of all-thread. 8 holes with anchor bolts total.   Better epoxy to use ?  grout ? Lead anchor ?

What's a good choice of material for the all thread that won't sheer right off?  SS   grade 4,  grade 6, grade 8 ?   What kind of nut - same as the bolt material ?  I plan to top it off with a nyloc nut so it wont work loose.

[Crofter]

I have had to core drill to replace broken studs on machinery bases and almost always because the torque had been lost and movement fatigued the stud. Most of the anchoring studs with a mechanical grab happen at the very bottom and leave a considerable portion of the stud above flappping in the breeze. Epoxy fills the hole. In either case the load above should be clamped down tight to the concrete so the clamping faces transfer the main lateral loading. If the stud itself is being flexed by vibratory motion they often break. In this case gr.8 may be no better than hardware store yield strength.

You have to either bolt it solid or provide for cushioned movement. As Jens mentioned, rubber below, rubber above. The stud itself must be torqued down solid on unyielding sleeve or washers or metal to cement or you risk haviing them break. In some cases that is no biggy but where it matters greatly dont err on the risky side.

I see you have similar advice from the LEF, lol!

[veggie]

While we're on the subject of anchors, can we get some opinions on the "type" of anchors that seem to work with the Listers.?

I inquired at a local bolt supply house and they offered 3 types:

1] Concrete "wedge" anchor

2] Concrete "drop-in-plug" anchor (Where the plug is "set" in the anchor and then a mounting bolt is screwed into the anchor

3] Epoxy anchor (non expansion anchor)

Anyone had good reliable service from one of these (or perhaps a different type) ?

Seems mike90045 and I are bolting down our machines at the same time.

veggie

[Geno]

I built a jig to hold my anchors in place before I poured. I didn't know about the other methods at that time. I used 6, 18", 5/8 bolts (grade 3 ??) with a square 4" piece of metal at the bottom of each bolt. After curing I put the frame on small wood blocks and poured expandable grout around the frame rails. If I had to do it again I would put a layer of chipped tires around the entire block. The way it is now it's tied to the earth very well and the vibrations carry for quite a distance.

Thanks, Geno

[mike90045]

Well, last weekend, got the engine lifted up (again) and pulled the cow mat out, and set her back down, then marked and started to drill the concrete for the hold downs.  But I ran out of steam, and my back couldn't take anymore, so there are 7 dimples, and 1, 2" deep hole.
Pics are in the last half of the album:
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2030711&id=1196643274&l=76eb578eb0

also, took pics of how I wrapped sling around engine.

Holes will be 4.5" deep, 3/4" di, to hold an epoxied 5/8" SS bolt

[veggie]

Mike,

Looks like things are coming together.
5/8" bolts should hold her down quite well. I went with the same size but have not done a run test yet.

BTW...not sure if the fuel tank/coolant reservoir is temporary, but if you intend to use the gen-set for long durations such as a week of rainy days or emergency power, you could probably count on approx. 2 - 3 hours of running before you have to shut down due to high coolant temp.
In summer it could take a full day to cool down enough to run a couple hours again. FWIW
If you come across a good deal on a radiator, grab it. Then add a 12vdc fan.

veggie

[veggie]

BTW, your link at the bottom of your posts does not let us in without a password !
http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister-Running

[mike90045]

Summers, I plan that the 3KW of solar will have enough power except for laundry day and dishwasher/vacuum cleaner.  That stuff is a power hog.   I also have a smaller gas genset that can power a small charger, to give listeroid a rest.

Winters, I can see running every other day, or maybe daily, to just bulk up the batteries.

Yesterday in the rain, the solar was making 300W, which is more than I thought it would.

Sorry about the link to facebook, it's SUPPOSED to be a public link like my photos are, but in the meantime, here's a link to youtube which is working  (same clip)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euT3qWnTVKs

It's just resting on the plywood/cowmat sandwich, and was slowly creeping "forward", so that's the reason for the bolting. I'd thought maybe the mat had enough surface area and friction it would stay put, but it didn't.

[Tom Reed]

I ran my genset for almost a year tethered to a couple of foundation bolts by 1/8" aircraft cable. For cooling on my engine, I went to the dumps and got an old 40 gal hot water heater. With the top cut off it works great, except for those long hard runs when it is warm, then it will start to boil a bit.

[mike90045]

Update
Holes are drilled, epoxy & bolts in.  Just have to break the "clamp" loose, epoxy got in there, and they are not "free" floating over the concrete slab.  Then I'll use a 1/4 plywood spacer between the top of the beam, and the underside of the clamp to hold it in tight with no play.  I ordered "heavy" nuts from McMasterCarr that have a few more threads, and thicker bodys, and will use the loc nuts on top of them, to keep things tight.

But more troubling is the the way the engine bolts to the I beam that it came on, the I beam has a taper on the backside, and the nut is not "flat" on the lower side of the beam.  I wonder if I should get a spacer or washer, and file them to match the I beam profile, or if it's a non-issue. Sure don't want to break the mounting lugs off after a couple hours of running.

And I added some more pics to the album
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2030711&id=1196643274&l=76eb578eb0

and this album has some shots of the old iron museum: (ROOTS of Motive Power)
There's a cowcatcher on a flatcar, with wire cable "bristles" - what's that for ?? (lower half of the album)
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.160879550652173.41210.120212794718849&l=c77bae3c3c

This town knows how to throw a BBQ:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.161287917278003.41309.120212794718849&l=48f6e619cd

[flywheel]

Mike, you need tapered washers for the underside of the beam.  This is what they look like, google them and see what you come up with. 
                                        flywheel

[flywheel]

Mike, you need tapered washers for the underside of the beam.  This is what they look like, google them and see what you come up with. 
                                        flywheel

I believe the proper name for them is I beam washer.
                                                                                                     flywheel

[mike90045]

Oh goodie.  more stuff to buy.   But I want to do it right, and failure is not an option.

McMaster-Carr listed them as tapered washer:
Shape    Square
Square Shape    Square Beveled
For Screw Size
1/4" | 5/16" | 3/8" | 1/2" | 5/8" | 3/4" | 7/8" | 1" | 1-1/8" | 1-1/4" | 1-1/2" | M8 | M10 | M12 | M16 | M20 | M22
Material
Material Type
  Steel
  Stainless Steel
  Aluminum
  Iron
   
Finish
  Plain
  Zinc-Plated
  Galvanized 

So many choices !!  May as well get some mild steel bolts, nuts and loc nuts at the same time, and since the engine is 10 hours away, who recalls what size the mounting bolt holes are ?

[Lloyd]

I had visions, of the captain standing on the bow 'looking smug as he made off his anchor.

"cut to below" The fish swimming around "said" anchor...'with a bubble quote'  "Cool Look a Lister"

hehe

lloyd,




yep            beam washers they are       that's almost a story right there.

[Carlb]

When i did my listeroid i mounted the engine on an I beam frame which i mounted on top of some 8x8" lumber with a 1" thick stall mat in between I then put another piece of 1" stall mat under the 8x8"s which is resting on top of my garage concrete slab. I did not mount the frame directly to the concrete slab, rather I placed pieces of c channel in front and back of the 8x8's with 1" stall mat in between.  if you stand very close you can feel the thump of the engine.  If you move 8 feet away you cant feel any vibration at all.
Here is a link to my engine where you can see the mounting setup.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfGjlHNX-68