Casting sand

[Jens]

I had one of my cam gear end caps soaking in caustic lye solution for a couple of days and today was the day to fish it out and clean it up. As usual, all the paint washed off in the water rinse and as usual, most of the motor oil remained (I might try adding some soap to the caustic lye bath).
I took the piece over to the parts washer and all the oil came off quickly but I was left with a rather astonishing sight. The outside was nice and clean, obviously gone over with a grinder or similar but the inside was like about 50 grit sandpaper with some rust thrown in for good measure. t took quite a bit of time to remove all the crap that was in there .... mostly casting sand. It appeared that the piece was literally 'as cast' on the inside and the only casting sand that was missing is the sand that fell off as they lovingly polished the outside
A quick recap - my original intention was to import and then completely disassemble the engine, clean it up and reassemble. Once the engine arrived, it was spotless on the outside and a check of the inside of the crankcase showed no grit to be present. Because it appeared so clean, the engine was put into service without the disassemble job.
I guess one could say that any grit on the inside of the end cap would get washed down the side of the crankcase and into the sump and be harmless but I was rather disappointed at what I saw since I figured I had lucked out with a 'clean' engine.

[playdiesel]

In my VERY small amount of experiance and from what I have read I would take any Indian engine completely down. My Metro also looked clean, the prior owner had removed covers and did the quicky cleaning job prior to me owning it. But the paint was applied over slag and sand, both inside and out and when it began to flake,,,

[bschwartz]

What is the purpose of painting the inside of the engine?  Won't the engine oil protect it from rust?

[mobile_bob]

painting helps to seal down any grit that remains after a thorough cleaning job

it is not meant to be a shortcut, which apparently some manufactures think it is.

also some casting are porous, so painting helps seal up the pores.

bob g

[Ronmar]

Probably a lot of the latter reason:).  Mine had a horrible initial paint job that missed a few places, and covered some sand.  After cleaning, I repainted, but still think I missed some places as it is a tough case to paint throughly.  I still weep a little oil into the drip pan I have sandwitched between engine case and frame.  I am about up to my 100 hour oil change.  When I do I will throughly clean out the case, and flood it with paint(up to the access doors), then drain out that paint and allow it to dry...

[billswan]

jens

Once I had all the nooks and crannies cleaned of sand I put the crankcase of my 10/1 in my old pickup and went to the car wash. Put in the quarters and put on some overshoes and had at it with the hand wand set on warm and soap. The block came clean and oil free enough so the paint would stick. Of course I had not run mine so did not have hundreds of hours of carbon in there.

If i remember right did you not mention you have a 4000 psi washer? Just use that and get some dawn dish washing detergent to dump into the block.

If that don't get it clean enough take it to the machine shop for a run through the cooker.

As far as paint I used light gray engine paint seams to be good enough so far. I tried to get the right paint but the local auto parts guys just glazed over when I asked for that red stuff for inside blocks and transmissions. Even there paint guru on the phone could not help. They are also a store that supplies the local body shops with there supplies.

Use google and search for Glyptal that is the right stuff or so the other people on this and LEF say. But as I mentioned above the local parts guys had never heard of it.

Billswan

[playdiesel]

If you have a local shop that does engine rebuilding they will "hot tank" it for you. Last one I hired out was only like $25 and they honed the cylinders for me too. You could also use a butyl (spelling/ ) cleaner sold in auto parts stores under various names of purple cleaner. Castrol super clean is one brand, my favorite comes from Advance Auto parts, more chemical less cost. Once clean it is my understanding that the paint brand is not critical but obviously must be VOC based, not laytex. Most of the hotrod shops just use Rustolium red oxide primer. Thereis a casting pin hole sealer available, I have some at the shop but the name just escaped me,, old age. The paint I used came from Grainger and work great, same usage as Gytol, differant Mfg. About $6 per can and one can will do the inside of your /2 easily. I did the inside and outside of my /1 crankcase with one can. Hereis the pic again to save haven to go looken.

[LowGear]

I'd do a spot check with WVO over night.  If it works, fabulous and if not, don't tell.  I've kind of gotten into acetone as well this last couple of years.  Great PVC glue primer and $15 a gallon is a lot better than $1 a fl. oz.

Casey

[SHIPCHIEF]

My Ashwamegh 25/2 went thru the local machine shop's hot tank 4 times, then when I took it home, I still had to clean it out with a pneumatic needle scaler. After that I had to take a die grinder to the interior to remove casting flash from drain back areas, and cast iron 'foam' filled with pockets of sand up behind the cam in the area below the tappets. I spent a huge amount of time prepping the inside of the block, thinking I would get it clean to the point I wouldn't need to paint it. Wrong Again! When I thought it was clean, I'd wipe it down with a rag soaked in brake cleaner, what an eye opener!
I painted mine with Pitsburg Paint's famous PPG DP-40 epoxy primer. The outside of the engine didn't get quite as good of prep, but the paint has been coming off around the oil pump, so I couldn't reccomend it.
I had 7 hours on my engine when George B called to offer a new aluminum cam idler gear, warning of problems with the original iron gear. When I opened my crankcase and stuck my fingers deep into the oil, I came up with clean oil at the top, and black sandy sludge from the bottom. The oil pump picks this up and pumps it thru little tubes to the top of the 3 main bearings. That can't be good! (That's what started the whole rebuild process mentioned above, and the oil system upgrade mentioned next)
So I also re-plumbed the oil pump discharge line out thru the block to a spin on oil filter, and also an oil heat exchanger (which is in the jacket water up-leg) so the oil will be heated and filtered before it goes back into the block to lube the main bearings.
Guy Falks would not approve.  

[Crumpite]

Guy Falks would not approve. 

Ok, that one went right over my head 

Reference ?

Thanks,
Crumpite

[Ronmar]

I will be facing the paint job as well. My crankcase leaks as well. What will you use for paint? What about leakage from areas that are splashed with oil ?
Most important, how will you get all traces of oil out of the pores of the casting so that the paint will stick properly ?

I will be using a rustoelum oil based yellow that appears to hold up well to the case environment.  I used it in there already, but the lower protruding sump box is almost impossible to get to to paint properly, so I am sure there are some "hollidays" in there, just like I found with the original paint.  Everything was painted but the roof of that area where the original lister oil access plate was located. that is why I am going to flood the compartment this time:)  As for cleaning, degreaser and hot soapy water.  Mine is already painted, I am just recoating it.  As for the spots that just get splash lube, I am not so worried about them.  I can see all of them and they are all pretty much coated.  The oil from that boint would also have to conduct thru a lot of cast metal to get to the bottom of the case.  I am pretty sure that in my case, the weeping is from the oil setting in constant contact with the sump...

[mobile_bob]

Guyfawkes would not approve!

boy does that bring back some memories




for those that don't know, the name comes from a guy that used to frequent the lister engine forum a couple years back
a most argumentative fellow if i say so myself.

he and i spent jillions of key strokes arguing all sorts of issues over there, the classic was the never ending debate over the
use of a ton of concrete to mount a lister/oid, with me asking for the engineering formula for such a concrete base, and he avoiding
providing one.

he had a very narrow vision of how these engine's should be built, mounted, used and discussed for that matter.

kind of miss that fellow, in some strange way

bob g

[Crumpite]

Thanks, bob g !

I was wondering how gunpowder and plots against the English government worked it way into CHP... 

Crumpite

[SHIPCHIEF]

Sorry 
GuyFawks insisted that the Lister CS (as built in England) was essentially perfect, and any modification was a crime against humanity as well as against the law and gennerally in bad taste.
I on the other hand favor upgrades that make sense to me, like full flow lubrication and oil temperature control. He opposed detergent oil stating that the engine was manufactured to run without it, I contend that non-det oil is hard to come by, and I modified my engine to run on available detergent oil.
Like that.
Guy was a kind of troll, but he is a pretty smart guy so he did contribute in his own way.

[LowGear]

Hi Bob g,

Wasn't he the guy with the loose lips?

Casey