Economics lesson in one paragraph

[mobile_bob]

all i am saying is , you can't paint all business with the broad brush of mega corporation, when the
reality is small business employs a huge number of people.

there has been obvious advantage taken of workers by all sorts of major corporations, from the early coal mines
to all manner of sweat shop labor populated by lost children.

and obviously there has been many excesses in the banking and finance industry (if industry is the right word)

however most small business is run by decent people that employ other decent people that through no fault of their own
are taxed, regulated, and because of crappy banking practice on wall street are being pushed out of business.

if we see further taxation being levied either directly or indirectly next year, my fear is we will see a double dip recession
and quite possibly depression unless we are just dumb lucky.

construction is in the tank, lumber companies are in trouble, as are drywall distributors, roof truss manufactures, concrete contractors
etc.... now if next year they take away the interest deduction on home loans you might as well as stick a fork in that whole sector of
the economy.

you just can't keep killing off, regulating to death, taking over, and  then taxing what sectors are left without serious fallout.

interesting times indeed

the way i figure it is whatever happens, the rich will get richer, and the poorer will get poorer, and those that can figure a play on what
is left over will do just fine.

i would bet my last dollar that if you stripped every last penny from the richest 10% in this country and gave it to the lowest 50%
it wouldn't be more than a year before the lowest 50% would be broke again, and those rich bastards you stripped of their money
would have it all back and then some.  IBM proved that back in the 60's!

this idea of increasing taxes isn't really going to hurt the rich, but it will end up killing the poor, just watch and see.

bob g

[LowGear]

It seemed like such a simple story about small town life.  I hope they were doing what they enjoyed.

Casey

[mobile_bob]

thats really all we can hope for in life, isn't it?

doing what we enjoy



bob g

[DRDEATH]

Bob I have to say AMEN to the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer. I have observed in my 50 + years it makes very little difference what you do. If you are born poor working class you are going to die the same. If you are rich chances are you will remain rich. There are the rare examples to the rule. I became educated but I still do not live a rich life. I have a rich life. Thats all anyone can hope for. Government ( Big Brother ) is not going to help they are just going to make it worse. Mike

[vdubnut62]

I thought all you guys were going to swear off talking politics.

Not so  easy to do when it hits so close to home, is it?

Oops! Sorry, my smartass is showing.
Ron

[LowGear]

This is scary.

This is not a challenge.

The government helps me quite a bit. 

Social Security and Medicare are great.

Casey

[mobile_bob]

Casey:

you paid into the system, and it should be there now to take care of you
i got no problem with that

i just hope there is something left when i get there, but i am not counting on it.



bob g

[AdeV]

the poor getting poorer

This is a fallacy, mostly put about by people who want to try to part you from your hard-earned so they can take their 15% & pass the rest down the line...

The poor in C21st "Western civilisation" countries are immeasurably better off than they were just 50 years ago. How? Let me count the ways:

- Almost everyone has access to clean running water, from a municipal supply.
- Almost everyone has access to electricity, again from a municipal supply
- Everyone has access to more TV and radio channels than at any time in history
- Everyone has access to cheap, healthy (i.e. it won't kill you if you eat it) and plentiful food

There are, of course, exceptions - mostly out of choice (e.g. the Amish, and some forum members...)

I've noticed another devious measure knocking about in the last couple of years: "relative poverty". In the UK, this is arbitarily defined as anyone who's income is less than 40% of the national average. Public money is then scattered on these people (who, unsurprisingly, convert them into cheap food, cheap booze and cigarettes as fast as they get the money, which makes them fat and too unwell to work, reducing their income still further, and so the cycle repeats).



The problem I personally have with free (to the user) healthcare is not that it exists at all, but that it's widely abused by the lazy fat arsed whingers who simply can't be bothered. Here in the UK, massive public resources are spent keeping these mouth-breathers alive & out of work, wheras they should be in hard labour chain gangs getting bloody fit (or having heart attacks & solving the problem that way). Sadly, that solution doesn't seem to find favour with the left-whingers, sorry, left-wingers, who complain about human rights, etc. etc.

[Crofter]

Once a system reaches a certain degree of sophistication (complexity) information overload occurs. Ever more and more information and more interconnectedness must be assessed for probable result. So called common sense does not cut it any longer as almost every decision now involves more than the experience of a single human can encompass.

If an attempt is made to remove layers of the protective process to speed things up you increase dangers of unanticipated consequence or even outright fraud. The tendering process through the supervision to completion of a public works project is just one example. Collectively we have deemed it worthwhile to build more safeguards into every process supposedly to protect the interests of the public against the whiles and ways of entities that would otherwise take advantage.

As an analogy to our economic model, lets consider what complexity does to a system. Before the days of computerization aircraft could be flown by human control. Many were so stable and self correcting that taking your hands off would result in the craft returning to level flight. Now the most advanced aircraft are inherently unstable and counter intuitive; they wont right themselves and the pilot without the computer cannot cannot feel what is the right input to correct it. Simply far too complex to be controlled by a single human's reflexes. Today the same kind of sophistication is being utilized to make financial transactions and project social and environmental impacts. Once man has allowed this costly complexity into his cockpit and allowed it to embed in every step of the process it is almost impossible to restore simplicity without bringing things to a full stop:  many things will never fly again. It is really, really difficult to put all our genies back into their bottles. We are serving them now and choking on the cost of the complexity they have unleashed.

Dont get wrapped around the axle in kneejerk reaction to the results. It has been years in the making and we are going to have to go back and examine how we got to where we are. Pick a restore point in computer terms, to get back on a heading. Einstein was quoted as saying that finding a solution requires a different level of thinking than that which created the problem. Hand in hand and turn about the great political parties got us here. Unless i miss my guess nothing short of impending total disaster will put an end to the rhetoric and wrangling that is going nowhere at an alarming rate. The solution is not in that!

[LowGear]

The poor in C21st "Western civilisation" countries are immeasurably better off than they were just 50 years ago. How? Let me count the ways:

....Anti-Thesis....

- Everyone has access to more TV and radio channels than at any time in history

   

[vdubnut62]

Oops! sorry again!
Ron