missing an opportunity here!

[mobile_bob]

ok guys,

while it is appreciated that some have chosen to sign up and help to financially support this group
we have to go a bit further here.

we have an opportunity to do something no other group has done before now, that is work with the epa
within the partnership and develop something that is very useful.

the clock is ticking, we have now about 45 days to file our first annual report with the epa, while i can do so
with my single unit, it would be nice to at least have a few others with at least an overview of what your project might look like
or what your goals are.

if we piss this opportunity away, it is unlikely we will be allowed to join later when folks decide that "yes this is worthwhile, and why
don't we do it?" or some such.

so if you would please, at least start a writeup about what your projected goals are, what you will be working toward, anything would be
useful, we can all work together to flesh it out, make suggestions for improvements etc.

i know times are tight, money is short for many folks, but there is no reason that even the most monetarily challenged among us can't
at least begin the planning stage, working on drawings, doing calculations, picking components etc.

i really don't want to move this group to a closed forum, so that we can get on with it, but if that is what it will take
we will do what we have to do to make this group a reality. there is too much to gain and nothing to lose in my  opinion
there is a huge amount of information and a large group of folks that are very much into cogeneration for us to draw info
from. We cannot access those folks or that information if we let this partnership die on the vine.

so what do you guys have to say?

comments are welcome



bob g

[Crumpite]

I've been so busy working on my CHP unit I haven't had time to post !
That's been corrected, see my post on "Folly" my setup.

Are there any other things we need to do, especially on a time line ?
You seem to be the only one with inside info.
(nothing negative implied !)

Crumpite

[Crumpite]

Bob, I wouldn't be surprised if most of us just shy away from any sort of official recognition because these projects are hobbies and not 'real' research. As such, one might do a bit of work on one corner, have a several month break and then do stuff at the other corner of the toy.


Just because you don't have a shiny lab, lots of money and a PhD, doesn't mean you aren't doing real research !
You'd be surprised at the number of part time, back burner projects that go on in real labs.
The rate of progress in a project has nothing to do about it's importance.


Take me for example. Besides the fact that Thumper died, my focus at the moment is primarily to get the engine room sound proofed. Because of the way I will be going about it and because it is basically an addition to the house, this involves lots of time and money but is in no way related to 'research'.

You're doing research on how to soundproof it, right ?

I am still waffling on what to do for future engine power (and it's too bad that the thread about suitable engines didn't elicit more reaction) but I am not approaching the issue scientifically. I have stuff rattling about in the back of my head and one day there will be a big light going on in my brain and I will have either an answer or I will have made a random decision to go one direction. Neither of which can really be documented or defended in any scientific way.

That's why it's called research !
If you write your thoughts down, it's called a research notebook.
I've got lots of pages of stuff I might never do, but I'm still thinking about occasionally.
It's still valuable to yourself, and perhaps to others who might be thinking about the same thing.


Even fundamental questions like horsepower are difficult to make. For what it's worth, I am pretty much convinced that the single 'do everything' engine is not the way to go for me.
Heat generated in a slow and steady manner tends to be more useful than heat generated by a big engine. When you run a big engine, everything needs to be up-sized to handle the amount of heat being generated and that all costs money. It makes more sense to use a small engine, small heat exchangers etc etc etc.

A very good point, and I lean that way myself.

With a small engine, the run times will be much longer which means more service for a single engine. It therefore makes sense to set up with multiple small engines so you can service things without being without heat. The problem with small engines is that if you need the electrical aspect of the generator, a small engine would severely limit your power generation unless you could combine the output of multiple little engines.
How do you combine the power of multiple engines - my choices are using a lay shaft where all engines power a single shaft and they are clutched to the shaft. The shaft then runs a large generator. Possibility #2 is that every engine powers a small hydraulic pump and a hydraulic motor runs the generator and last but not least you use a bunch of engine/generator 'pods' , rectify the output and pump it into batteries and run a large inverter to power your house from that.

This is called a research project, and guess what, you've already started the documentation in this post !
Now, hopefully, others will chime in with their ideas and we'll be doing colabrative research.
This entire site is a collaboration into the practicalities of micro CHP.
You're doing research, and you don't even realize it !

There is another option which is to run a large engine in addition to small engines. This large engine would only be powered up if the power fails and lots of electricity is required.

Lots of possible ways to go ....... and nothing real worthwhile to write up here as far as a system plan is concerned.

I have learned an awful lot with Thumper and I will be putting that to good use but I can't really put any of that to a schedule or any other documentation.   ...... or at least I don't know what you would like from me for the SOMRAD group.

You've captured a lot of experience in getting an experimental micro CHP unit running.
Research, Design, Building, Data - If you can just condense your experience in a few paragraphs, you'd added a lot to what's known about actual home grown CHP units.
No one else is doing this, we're the ones on the forefront of what will likely become world-wide use of these units.

Sit and think about what I've said, it's only attitude that separates a shade tree mechanic from an amateur scientist.
Amateur science is a new old idea that's catching on again.
You're already part of it !

Crumpite

[Henry W]

Hi Bob,

I am working on my final shopping list on what I will need to get my CHP assembled.

Decisions

I looks like I will be staying with the Kubota Z482 power unit. I am looking to run the engine at 2600 RPM.

Still working out on which genhead will be used.

I need to think of surge and power factor. More on this later

Need to contact Amtrol to see if a double walled coil for thier smallest indirect fired hot woter maker is available.

This should be a fun project.

Henry