epa cuts and the future of chp

[SteveU.]

Ahh . . . heck. The curse of 15 minute edit lock out.
My post above the second line of " 'ol 21st century" should have been 20th Century.

Yep Mr Casey, my point. You cannot walk into to any COSTCO, Home Depot, Harbot Frieght and in stock buy a diesel engined generator. I've looked. I've asked, many times.
And on-line ordering these off of thier web sites gets you your Kohler, Kubota, and others generator shipped DIRECT TO FROM A MANUFACTURE/DEALER.
And this ship-to-you is the most srtaighline answer to why no more slow speed deisels supported into the USofA. They weigh too much. Too much container shipping capacity taken up. Too much weight in manufacturing materials cost for maximum profits to the makers/distributors.
And of course they then use big-fish-eat-littler-fish to keep out competitors. Restrictive Progressive Emissions regulations complained about, but complex/expensive "complied with" as a keep deep-pocketed monopoly hurdle.

No I do not view youtubes beyound 1-3 minute show 'em's.
I walked away from the family holi-roller screech and preach church at 15 yours old. Never let myself be rah-rah crowd-sourced since.
I read instead.
I read some of the Agenda 21 books instead. Only so-so stories. Others are much better. Ayne Rand's fictions. Huxley's. Others since post-2001.
I also read three different versions of the Christian Bible. Read a lot of Dahli Lama. Read some other Buddhist writings. Have a Koran I can refer to as needed. Read a lot of biography's
If I find myself moved by what I've read; I then search out a writing of a critical counter view.
THEN make up my own I-N-D-P-E-N-D-E-N-T opinion. Ford was an only so-so family man. Edison actually a terrible family man. Tesla had no grown family. Weird man all in all. Admire George Westinghouse far above these guys.
I am neither Demo/Prog, or Repulican/Neo. Not a strict Rand/Libertarian either.

Reading you can always part read, set aside and let the steam cool down. Go back later, re-read, and thoughtfully reflect. Go back years later and see if it still holds water. Your conclusions stand the test of time.
Wanna' expand your current culture horizon? Read this:
wwwkustner.com/clusterfuck-nation/forcast-2017-wheels-finnally-come-off/#more-
James H. Kusnstler says in his book, "Too Much Magic" that he is a NY state registered DEMO. In his 2017 Forecast (if you bother to read it in detail) he supported neither Hilllory C. or D. Trump
His friend, blogger Chris Martenson on his PeakProsperity.com hints he is a registered Republican. He supported neither Hillary C. or D. Trump either.
Yet both of these fellows future looking have moved themselves out rural and small town from the NYC Shitty area. Both have big gardens. Both raise back yard live stock. I've always been rural. Stayed rural except for some months urban living, temporarily working in the shittys of Portland OR and Seattle/King Co WA.

Now read Bill McGire, Varley and others best you move back from the always-been, always-will-be too volitle of ocean edges, to inter-continent temperate zones.  Settle in there thousands years proven as as stable as 'ol Mother will give you..

Ha! That would be Mobile Bob!

Settle where you can hunker. Then DO hunker in socially where you did settle.
J-I-C Steve unruh

[LowGear]

Thanks for the bibliography.

OK, so the next logical question (logical to me).  Why do slow speeds need to be to 19th century built.  How does rotating at 1800 or 3600 as many do today get by with less structure than 600?

Has anyone experimented with slowing these modern guys down?  Is it all a flywheel requirement?

Casey

[SteveU.]

Mr casey the best engineering answers to this was given a few years back on the Lister Engine Forum by a member known as blackseasix? Hr was a former Petter engine engineer who worked to rationalize the Lister engine designs after Lister and Petter became one.
He thought it was was nuts from an engine engineering stand point to go back to idolizing the big singles versus the post WWII evolved 2 and 3 cylinder engines.
When the big singles originally evolved precision machining work was expensive. Lubricants were base stocks simple. So really they were doing the best they could in the price of manufacturing/operation range. Aircraft and advancing auto racing showed even in the 1920's and 1930's much better was possible . . . for a price.
Post WWII the massive wars invested industries could then affordably machine multiple cylinders, pistons, valves/valve seats, cam lobes, etc. Lubricants, metals alloying, wear/corrosion resistant coatings all advanced late 1940's thru the 1960's. This allowed higher operating RPM's, higher operating temperatures for the same, even longer, hours of operational life. Late 20th Century tech's.

A single cylinder four stroke as the RPM increases will have closer spaced in time power strokes, delivering that power smoother to the work. 2, 3, 4 cylinder engines do this much closer spaced power PULSE delivery better yet. Ha! Ha! Yes this goes on true into inline 6, V-8, V-12, V-16 engines. DIMINISHING RETURNS on manufacturing/operational costs past three cylinders for just DYI home heat and power.
And home power sized four stroked inline three cylinders are self smoothing out so you no longer need big honking flywheels, mounting bases, etc.

Assumed Premises are the DYI problem to getting real in this world results,  to useable.
Assuming less cylinders right down to one cylinder will always be better is a mistake.
Assuming that slow speed will always give the best fuel to power utilization is amistake. 650 rpm good, so 350 RPM just must be better, eh. NOT. Not in DYI home power. Massive ocean ships burning industrial wastes oils, probably, yes.
THE FIRST REASON for the slow speed Listeroid was the Assumed belief these could be all urban wastes oils fueled. Maybe so. Now live with the hopping, no more imported, hard to get parts. Chanfa-zoids eleiminated the hopping/ground thumping and a lot of the noise, maybe useable for urban wastes oils as fuels too. Still; the no more imported complete units, hard to get parts.
SECOND REASON Assumed for superiority of these CSLister's was the belief in 30,000 hours service life possibility. Lister Engine Forum member hottater very well proved to expect 5,000-7,000 hour service life before major rebuilding needed. Others here now microcogen should have racked up the hours now to confirm this.
Jeez man. I get routinely 4,000 hours service life on all of my watercooled 1500-2400 loaded rpm ran modern four strokes. And not just me. These are wide range expectations.

Well since on our rural 17 acres I have NO restaurants making daily oils, daily usable amounts of waste motor oils; we do not generate enough worn out tires and consumer plastics for any reasonable daily use amounts of energy capability for me using these has never been an interest.
Nope our annual solar energy is natural species growing trees. Same for the whole of the Pacific Northwest wetside. Ha! And NO ain't none of my trees that will grow fuel pellets, or fuel chips!
Late 20th Century overhead, and early21st century overhead cammed four stoke engines operating at 1500-4300 rpm and I can now too power our lives.

Another Asuumed Premis: that you must have a water cooled engine to be able to CHP.
The air cooled plastic suitcased inverter genrators blow ALL heats concentrated out one end. Farm this.
My Miller/Kohler Trailblazer 302 genrator welder would pull-in all cooling airs from both ends and blown out concentrated heats at the center housing doors. This ran at two RPM, 2400 and 3600. The next generation Miller Trailblazer 325 model they reversed the engine mounting so all systems heats go out one end. These advanced further to operated with produced AC power in four fuel saving RPM ranges.

Being tight-rpm synchronous Asuumed as always needed is a 20th century limitation.
21st century you use only the engine rpm actually needed to produce the shaft power actually needed at the time for generation. This saves fuel, wear, noise and operational costs.
Usable amounts of PV solar is very 21st century. Why Assume lock this back into the 1920's, and 1930's limitations?
Even in the 1970's-1990's those of us actually doing it knew to use variable rpm DC charging for the simplest, lowest costs home made power. Disadvantages? Yes.  For cheap, affordable realistically only ~2.5 kW systems. Really did need a battery bank even if not PV solar.

And yes with an bit of finger walking you too can find made in this world, currently available variable speed compression ignition (diesel) inverter generators.
You betcha'. Big inverter units, just like the Miller Trailblazers will cost a bit more than a penny. $4,000 to $8500.
But Assuming you can match functioning performance, operating cost of operation, longevity, serviceability versus a factory engineered, works proven system with dealer support is the very worst DYI Premis.

Wished I could get back the $650 truck freight is cost me to get that first 12/1 Listriod fro Maine to here Washington state. Then add in a few did not work out, set aside no longer use, E-Bay bid/bought then UPS shipping destroyed things; and knowing now I could have dealer walked in and bought the Miller generator welded, cash with these missteps. And could have done this near ten years ago, by avoiding my own premise assumptions.
Or dealer walked in and cash bought four Honda 2000 suitcase inverter units.
Or dealer walked in and bought two Honda or Yamaha 3000 inverter generators, cash.

J-I-C Steve Unruh

[LowGear]

Wow,

Thanks for the great reply. 

I've always wanted one of those super-duper welders. 

Aloha,

Casey