CHP and Modern Engine Designs

[veggie]

Hey All,

Lets face it, the age of the Listeroid is pretty much over and imports have dried up except for a few remaining channels.
But the idea of CHP (The initial drive behind this forum) still makes a lot of sense in many areas.
Especially when talking about emergency power and heat.

I decided to follow some of the older discussions on this forum and bring myself into the modern age by investigating
some of the tiny TIER2 and TIER4 water cooled, two cylinder diesel engines which are freely available (new and used) for micro-CHP use.
HWEW, Mobile_Bob, XYZ'er, and others have been stating for some time that ideal power plants for modern micro-chp are
the Kubota, Perkins, and Yanmar mini 2 cylinder water cooled engines used predominantly as Semi Trailer refrigeration units and Semi-Tractor
Aux. Power Units (APU's).

As a CHP enthusiast, I must agree that these engines are the near perfect solution for DIY Micro CHP.

So, I bought one. A little Kubota Z482, 2 cylinder. I intend to mount the unit on a minimal base along with a Voltmaster 4kw generator head.
I have modified the wiring on the head so that the neutral is no longer bonded to ground. This enables me to tie the generator
power directly into my house circuits through a transfer switch.
Being that the coolant will reject as much heat energy as the generator energy, I intend to utilize the cooling system to provide heat through household hydronic wall radiators.

While I still own a Listeroid and a couple of Changfa's, I am looking forward to now focusing on these little modern jewels for future projects.
In my opinion these truly are a much better solution due to..
-Compact size (only 14" long and 12" wide)
-Relatively quiet
-Water cooled (for gathering heat energy)
-Relatively easy to source used
-Ease of parts availability
-Ease of service

I intend to post pictures and updates in the Kubota section as the project progresses.
If anyone else is building a project using a mini 2 cyl diesel, please post pics and information on your unit in the appropriate section.
I can use all the ideas I can get 

cheers,
Veggie

[mobile_bob]

Veggie

bless your little pea pickin heart! 

having popped in on occasion and seeing the forum nearly dead, i too have concluded that
the day of the listeroid or other import engine is all but a faded memory for the vast majority of folks.

and i also agree that the motivation behind microcogen is just as viable today as it was nearly 7 years ago?  has it been that long? when we first started this forum up?

thinking along these lines, or the use of a more modern engine,  it would appear to me as i am sure most other folks that they would be vastly easier to adopt for micro cogen use... lets face it who really has time these days to have to rebuild an engine (to remove sand etc) before we can use it anyhow?

best of luck with the new project.

fwiw,  i will be following along and offering whatever help i can?

just remember my help is worth about half what you pay for it! 

bob g

[Henry W]

Veggie,
The Z482 is a nice small engine. Another great thing about this engine is it reaches operating temperature very quickly. This makes it an ideal engine for CHP. Im looking forward watching your build. If I can be any assistance just let me know.

Henry

[billswan]

Ok guys

Now how about a source of repair parts for these engines. Anyone have any place where reasonably priced injectors and pump parts can be had.

My son in law acquired and gave to me a probably wore out APU off a semi that has this motor in it. The story goes the semi owner tossed the whole unit after he had the injectors and pump removed for repair. I have most of the injector and pump parts but am missing the injector lines. My guess is the parts new will be costly. Not knowing the engines internal condition but by judging from it's generally poor exterior shape I have concluded it probably is not worth the cost of new parts. Should pop the head off and see what it is like internally but just have not found the time.

Billswan

[Henry W]

Here is where I get Kubota engine parts.

http://www.enginepowersource.com/engine-power-source-kubota-dealer-locator.html

I been working with them for years. Most of my parts were delivered the next business day.

In my area Kubota engine parts are cheaper than Cat/Perkins and Yanmar.

Build a good relationship with a parts dealer and you will get better rates. The employees at Engine Power Source been great. They know the products and always strive to help in locating parts that your not sure what the part number is.

Henry

[Thob]

I bought a used Kubota D660 off craigslist for very little money - it ran OK and came with a small lawn tractor.  I was going to remove the engine and put it in a small frame but decided to mount the generator on the tractor frame instead.  I now have a self-propelled portable generator with hydrostatic transmission!  I've used it "around the farm" and a couple of times for power failures.  For CHP use I would have definitely mounted it in a frame and reworked the cooling system.  Nice thing about it was that it was complete, fuel tank, air filter, muffler, fuel filter, fuel pump (tank to injector pump), radiator, starter, etc.  So I didn't have to chase down a bunch of "accessories" after I bought it.  I've seen a number of the APUs for sale as well; you would get a mostly complete system that way as well (no fuel tank).  Many of the APUs have air conditioners as well, you might be able to use that as a heat pump.  Patience and living near a big city where people throw lots of stuff away is key to finding the bargains.

I bought my parts here:

http://www.messicks.com/

Seem to have good service but they are a tractor dealer so it helps to know which model tractor the engine would fit in.  I was able to navigate thru their web site and download parts manuals for my tractor. You have to give them your email and wait for them to send you a section at a time, which is kind of a hassle but it is free.

[Jens]

I'd love to replace my Listeroid monster but there is the issue of what to do with the thing (and it's spare parts) afterwards.
It sits  in it's carbon sooted room (exhaust leak towards the end of it's last run), rat poop on it and rust forming on the outside. It is a sad sight indeed and needs a good going over.
If I ever get going on this again I would not run veg oil any more and it would strictly be used in case of power outage (no chp). Using diesel for chp use just isn't economical. Buying electrons from the power company is cheaper by the time you include wear/tear and labour to keep things in good condition.
I think I would combine power generation (DC) with Lithum battery storage and use an inverter to produce clean output. I would also be able to include some solar power panels in the setup. I have been running a 700 AH 12V Lithium pack on my boat for some time now and it's a sweet setup. When Tesla gets going on its house power packs that will be the ideal combination. Instant switchover to battery power and the diesel generator if power is out for a longer period of time.
The bonus of DC besides storage is that the generator can be small as any power surge is taken up by the battery pack.
Veggie, how heavy (approx) is that little two cylinder job ?

[veggie]

Hi Jens

The engine weights 120 lbs.

Veggie

[ToddT]

For the past five years or so, I've run my small company off the grid using a 6kw light plant. It has a 1 liter, 3 cyl Mitsubishi diesel sipping a little less than half a gallon. My dream has always been to use one of my Changfa-clones (8kw & 12kw) at the house for Cogen. With two thirds of the BTU going out in heat through the coolant and exhaust, it makes sense. I also have some solar hot water collectors (three 3'x7' panels). My idea is to create a reservoir for hot coolant generated by the exhaust, engine coolant and solar panels. Optional would be an oil-fired heater and a wood-fired heater.

I look forward to your developments in hopes of implementing some at my house and shop.