Toyota Prius co-gen??

[glort]

At $5 an hour for your time how much are you paying for your fuel.  I do the WVO and biodiesel routine too but it has little to do with economics*. 
*  I'm at war with the oil cartels and fighting them in a most gentlemanly manor.  Oil man to oil man.  Disillusions are a beautiful thing.

Sorry but the "What is your time worth" argument is ridiculous, no matter how many times it's used.

I don't get paid to work 24 hours a day so the time I do spend processing oil is my free relaxation time.  And I do find it relaxing and stress free.
I also don't work for $5 an hour so I would run the numbers at $20 and hour just to play devils advocate.  Even at that rate, I still come out waaaay ahead.
Many years ago I looked at the whole thing and what people did with filterbags dripping away all day and general backyard mucking around and said bugger this.
I set out with the idea of how one would process the oil on an industrial scale and built my system to the best of practicality and cost effectiveness along those lines.
Basically "Dirty oil in, clean oil out and never shall it see the light of day in between."

I spend about 2-3 Hours a month ( if that) collecting oil.  I bring it home, pump it out and don't touch it for at very least 3 months.
When that IBC of oil comes around in it's turn, It will take me about 15 Min to fiddle around and pump it into the processor and get it going.  If it's cold there is another 15 min firing up my WVO burner and heating it or if it's warm, I flick the switch on the processor I built for about $120 and walk away.  The oil will be finished in anything from 30 Min  to 2 hours.  Sometimes I leave it run over night.   It's irrelevant, I go off and do whatever I want as I don't have to be there with it.

When it's Dried and filtered, I come back and another 15 min to pump out and reload.  It's quicker the 2nd time around as I usually do batches and I have run the hose to the tank I'm processing and hooked it up. I just have to fill the processor and the cycle repeats. I process 200L at a time.

Here, the LOW price for Diesel is about $1.40 L and last week it was $1.60L  ($ 5.32 -  6.08)  ( And Americans whinge and bitch when their fuel is $4.00 gal !!!  )

So, the minimum value of my fuel  @ 1.40 x 200 =  $280.
Cost of my time, lets call it an hour to include collection which I usually pick up 1000L in those 3 hours is $20
Cost of power IF I run the thing all night which is occasional not regular, is still going to be under a buck.  2 hours is about .12c
Filter bag that lasts at least 2000L due to the settling is $11 if I only buy 6 at a time.

If I add all the costs into one batch let alone 10, I'm still making $250 an hour ! Of course to earn $250 @ 20 an hour, i'd have to work at LEAST 30 hours to cover tax and incidentals in order to make the $250 in my pocket to buy Diesel. 

Now, How many people make or save $250 an hour in their SPARE time??  And that is totally worst case scenario.

Processing oil never takes me away from anything else, in fact like last week, I used the time I was giving my Daughter her 120 hours driving instruction to get her licence  to go do the collections. I did the same with my son last year and I guarantee that kid can reverse a 4WD between Obstacles better than any other 1st year driver out there! He thought it was funny to ignore my directions and rub the tyres which had slight ( but legal) overhang from the bodywork on Dumpsters etc as he backed up to the oil tanks in loading docks etc.  He used to do it to prove his precision placement of the Vehicle. Here the kids have to have a minimum of 20 Night hours. My son finished up with only 31 DAY hours!   

After the collections last week, I ran a settled batch of oil and I had the processor going while I was on the phone talking to clients  and lining up business. I also had to go out and see a client so I dropped in at one supplier that was right on the way and loaded up another 300L of oil in tins AND managed to do it without getting any on my good clothes which was probably the major win.

I do the oil in batches when I'm at home and it's convenient.
For some reason, people get this impression ( or create it) that you are out the back every waking moment like a slave with this stuff. I usually run batches to do 1000L + at a time which I have done in a day but more usually over a couple of days/weekend and pump it all into an IBC I have dedicated to ready to go oil and then that lasts me however long till I need more. All I do then is pump it into the Vehicles as I need.
  A lot of the time I do a lot more than the 1000L and simply keep going till the IBC, the 10 25L drums I use to carry extra on long trips to the country to see my Dad etc, a couple of 44's and the fuel tank is full.
When I do that, I usually don't have to process again for 2-3 months.

Often when I'm processing the oil I'm out doing stuff round the yard like mowing or cleaning or playing with my listers or engines. I have been seriously thinking about using one like a co-gen processor.  Run a small china diesel to drive a pump  and an Induction motor, use the heat to warm and help dry the oil and use the excess power to go back to the grid to earn me about an extra dollar while it's all running.

So from the "What is your time worth?" aspect which is flawed, the answer would be, "It would be worth a lot more If I could Process oil full time and sell it at the same Price as bought fuel".   

[LowGear]

Call me Merican but there's just something warm and fuzzy about walking out and starting up a really safe, comfortable easy to drive road car.  My 92 Subaru SVX almost makes me sad not to have a road trip ahead of me.  I do enjoy my NPR dump truck but I can't remember the last time I got out of her feeling more rested than when I got in.

The really big question is why no one has stuffed a diesel into the hybred package?  We all know it won't burn the WVO but they should certainly do the biodiesel.  They'd have more than 90 miles per gallon (remember; I'm ah Merican) and we'd be riding around on more than a skate board strapped to our bottoms.

The really great thing is we all have different avenues of interest and joy.  What a great planet.  Enjoy and protect!

Casey

[quinnf]

You foreigners with your diesels.     Listening to you guys go on about what you can drive is like watching a stripper undress while sitting next to your wife (uh, not YOUR wife, MINE!).  

Ok, in a perfect world, we'd all be able to drive Unimogs!  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unimog

[glort]

Call me Merican but there's just something warm and fuzzy about walking out and starting up a really safe, comfortable easy to drive road car.  My 92 Subaru SVX almost makes me sad not to have a road trip ahead of me. 

Well that's the feeling I get with my Truck.

My father has a Subaru Wrecking yard and was a bit Disappointed when I bought the last Nissan as he had a Turbo Forrester he had got to give me ( That he confided some months ago). He keeps asking me why ai bought a tank like that. He's starting to come around though.
I have saved him a considerable fortune taking machinery and things up to him he's bought instead of him having to pay ridicilous transport charges because he's 10 Min off the highway and the lazy arse truck drivers don't want to make that HUGE detour!  
The other day I took a load of rubbish I piled into the back of the thing and was amazed ( as was my brother in law) when I filled the bucket on the loader at the waste transfer station he works at. TWICE!.

There are a lot of soccer mums driving round in F150's and SUV's that never get utilised but my old girl sure does!

I like the subys and both my wife and Son presently have one Courtesy of the old fella.
My son was never keen on the oilers but as I type, his is sitting in the driveway and he's stolen mine because as a kid he finds the cost of fuel a real noose round his neck.
He's even asked about getting one as him and his mates like going camping and guess who's car always gets to go on those Jaunts?
My son has a deal with them. He pays for fuel and they pay for food and drink for him. Everyone is happy with that deal.

Even my wife has commented on how much fuel costs  just going back and forward to work. She was used to just telling me the car needed fuel and the Oil fairy coming and filling it up for her before she went off again the next morning. She even said when she got the Imprezza that going to a service station and pumping fuel felt really weird after not doing it for so long.
Her Peugeot has been sitting round a while but she seems to like the Suby well enough to want another one so the Pug will be sent to a new home.

I love my truck and find it infinitely more comfortable than anything else I have had. I take it on road trips all the time because it's roomy, powerful, actually handles well and best of all, I can drive interstate and the fuel cost might be $30-40 for some petrol if I go in winter and have to run some blend.  My father is 3.5 hours away and when we take the subys it's over $100 in fuel return trip. The kids whinge when we don't take the truck because the back seat of the subys is so cramped in comparison.

I was hoping to buy the Mrs a Turbo Forrester this year but work has taken an unexpected major downturn so that will be on the back burner for a while. The one she has is a bit small she is realising even for her getting groceries etc which is why I thought a forrester may be better. The old man has a one and it goes like stink which is really amusing given it's driven by a 75 yo man who likes to give it good squirts to feel the rush.  
I'll admit there is no performance comparison between it and my 22 Yo truck.  Of course if we attached a decent size boat on the back, I think things may even up a lot.    

The really great thing is we all have different avenues of interest and joy.  What a great planet.  Enjoy and protect!

Absolutely!

I far prefer to enjoy and look forward positively than stress about apocalyptic meltdowns and dooms day scenarios.
Some say I'm negative because I don't want to worry about things like that or " Preparing".  I  rather look forward to a brighter and happier future than spoil today worrying about a bleak tomorrow that may or may not ever happen.
Live in the moment I think.

Each to their own I guess.    

[glort]

Even my Japanese 4.2L, 2.5 ton 4WD tank with the aerodynamics of a block of flats gets over 30 MPG with a little care and not too much of a load and that's on veg oil.

Modern Diesel cars from Hyundai, Citroen, Peugeot, Holden/ Vauxhall, Fiat, Kia, Skoda, Seat, Volkswagen, Mini, ford, Volvo and Renault among others all get the same or  better mileage than the prius and they are just conventional vehicles and cost less as well. There are plenty of Petrol vehicles that get very close to the tightarse and cost a heap less and have a lower overall cost of ownership.

When it's possible to get consumption like that  out of a conventional Diesel, The Hybrids leave me underwhelmed.

Glort, the only thing that can be bought here in a Diesel version is a Big-Assed American pickup, a VW, a Mercedes, and just maybe a BMW. I'm not sure if the Bimmer is sold here yet or not, the darn things are out of my price range anyhoo. A new diesel pickup will run $40-60K US dollars and with the DEF and the exhaust reactor burning extra fuel to keep it hot enough not to plug up with soot, the mileage sorta sucks. Thank you EPA! How can one burn more fossil fuel to produce less emissions (waste products)?  Counter intuitive? I think so.
Enjoy your practical vehicles while you got 'em!
My old 85 Jetta diesel averaged 35-36 mpg  that was at full whee most of the time, not very impressive performance with 48hp underfoot, and I always turned the air conditioner off on the Interstate highways when I came to a hill, or I would lose a lot of speed. But it was a lot of fun!
Ron

I realise there is a lot of Vehicles NOT available in the US for whatever reasons but that's not to say manufacturers don't know how to build them or the technology isn't there.  I think things like the pry arse are a lot more to do with marketing hype and appealing to the greenwashed that any technical breakthrough or development at all.
Case in point is exactly what you say. If there really was a genuine interest by gubbermints in clean vehicles and reduced fuel consumption, they wouldn't exclude vehicles that are sold everywhere else in the world from being sold in the US under stupid excuses.

Yes, a diesel -MAY- blow more particles of carbon measured on a machine per mile or gallon that a petrol or other vehicle but if the other vehicle is burning more fuel than it's putting out more total emissions.  That seems to be an inconvenient fact to certain entities.
It seems to me and many others that your EPA is a gubbermint department that has gone totally berserk and does far more harm than good these days.
I think if they got reeled in or disbanded totally the US would be a lot better off.

No one is going to complain about them prosecuting Illegal dumping of toxic waste in waterways but it seems they just go waaay too far with all manner of things that are just ridiculous. There has to be a balance between the emissions of modern living and trying to go back to the stone age.

Our last Gubbermint was severely infected by the green goobers who also went nuts and brought in all sorts of ridiculous policies and taxes. Basically they acted like Australia could single handedly clean up the world and by doing so, we would ender ourselves to the rest of the world for doing so. Yeah, I bet countries like india and China and other filthy 3rd world shitholes that got so much of our manufacturing that was driven off sure where there were far fewer regulations would be really proud and grateful to us.

There were numerous spectacular failures with these green schemes that cost tens of millions and even literally cost peoples lives in their spectacular failure.
At the last election a month or so back, the green goobers had their arses soundlly kicked and I believe have only the one single seat now rather than having the balance of power.  They cost the country BILLIONS with their idiotic taxes and schemes that did nothing to help their purported cause at all.

People here are well over any green, save the planet crap now and it will be a long time before any party goes down that road again. By then the stupidity of all this rubbish may have passed and be recognised by history for it's incredible stupidity and dismissed as nothing less than the insanity it has been.

People that whine about environmental issues rarely look at the big picture. instead they champion a small part that suits their agendas and refuse to acknowledge anything else.  Like the electric car enthusiasts that think they are clean and enviro friendly. They refuse to accept that most of the world power still comes from coal and by switching from oil to electric all you are going to do is burn one fossil fuel instead of another. They also fail to acknowledge the higher production energy investment or the multiplication of toxic substances in batteries and the like.

Yep, lets just look at that wonderful green car with no exhaust pipe and forget about the ones at the factory that made it and it's components or the ones at the power station that fuel it. They don't exist in their world.

Toymota did whatever it was they needed to do to comply with the regulations ( or grease the palms of the regulators) to get their pryarse accepted for sale in the US. That's not to say that there  aren't a lot of other cars out there that are just as economical and have a lot less total environmental impact.
The problem is not the vehicles, it's the decision makers who don't allow them to be sold in the US.

[LowGear]

You're dad actually has a turbo diesel Subaru?  Where?

Casey

[David Baillie]

The thread was how to Cogen with a Prius right?...
There are starting to be a lot of them in the as is/parts category up here.  They exist, they are available, are they a decent platform? What they could run on, should run on could go on forever no?  All fuels have drawbacks and all have advantages.  If you tore out its battery pack and mounted the ups and a larger pack in it would it make a decent Cogen unit? Or would it be no better then an iddling car...
Thanks, David Baillie

[stirich]

well did this thread go south or what?  so it looks like it is a great car but no one has fooled around with one? I wanted to convert it to propane and make power and heat, but it looks like everyone just drives them

[glort]

well did this thread go south or what?  so it looks like it is a great car but no one has fooled around with one? I wanted to convert it to propane and make power and heat, but it looks like everyone just drives them

Google is your Friend!

http://www.converdant.biz/home

http://www.wikihow.com/Use-a-Toyota-Prius-As-a-Backup-Generator

http://www.gizmag.com/toyota-prius-plug-in-emergency-generator/22834/

[LowGear]

How about just gen without the co-?

There are two principal battery packs, the High Voltage (HV) battery, also known as the traction battery, and a 12 volt battery known as the Low Voltage (LV) battery. The traction battery is a sealed 38-module nickel metal hydride (NiMH) battery pack providing 273.6 volts, 6.5 A·h capacity and weighing 53.3 kg (118 lb)

273.6 volts should fire up my SMA inverter - right?  Wrong.  The SMA 240 volt rigs require 360 volts for lift-off.  I was excited too.  I was all ready to set that alternator onto a three point step up which bumps the 560 output up to 1800 RPM.  My 800 RPM Witte would have made things hummm right along.

Casey

[glort]

If you were keen to do that, maybe you should look at other inverters the ones I have fire up at 140 and max out at 600.
Maybe some will uprate and others only convert down.

The data sheet on mine say they are not fussed about amps but will only convert their rated output ( 2 and 3.6K)  but the volts can't go high.

[LowGear]

I currently have a SMA 6000 running during the days with solar.  Wouldn't it be nice to chug out 10-20 KW a couple of evenings a week.

See  

Casey

[LowGear]

Oops.  It's never too late to change.  Anyone got a suggestion on an alternative grid tie inverter that would handle 6+ KW of Panels by day and about 5 KW by night?

I can't, for the life of me, figure out what I can do with the heat 200 feet from the nearest hot water tank that is already solar assisted.

Casey

[glort]

As this would be an SI engine and you would have to buy fuel rather than having veg or WMO to run it on, What about using the heat for a Methane digester so you could fumigate the engine and cut down on fuel costs?

[LowGear]

As this would be an SI engine and you would have to buy fuel rather than having veg or WMO to run it on, What about using the heat for a Methane digester so you could fumigate the engine and cut down on fuel costs?

Nope.  My allegiance to KISS rules.

The links obviously use the Prius engine but I'm thinking just pulling the charging system and DC batteries, for smoothness, and using my Witte as the power.   More reading reveals 346 volts DC on the battery.  That's pretty close to the SMA 360 VDC for lift-off and well into the 300 VDC for continuous running.  And to charge that battery to 346 VDC means the generator is putting out more than that.

It would sure be fun to have a Prius here for a day or two along with a good pair of jumper cables.  Pull the wires off the electric motor, put on a rubber suit and see what happens.  That's how the ole man would have done it.  He's dead of course.

Thanks for stretching the little gray cells into a new dimension.

Casey

I wonder if the warm CO will be enough to rid the place of Coqui frogs?  co-generation