Off Grid Well Pump. How 'Ya Doing It?

[SteveU.]

Hi All
Asking for some input. I have this family property well 198 foot deep at an attitude of 772 ft.
This was put in place about 1960 and is now needing it's third pump. Used to supply the two 1500 sf houses and three gardens, two cow troughs.
We were foeced to take the houses off of it back in 1999 and go with public water - DONT ASK - very small town political. Only used it seasonally since for yard and gardens. Two years ago the in well electric pump failed ~1 1/2 hp, 230 Vac single phase. Last year ditching in new power to one of the houses for a 100 to 200 amp service upgrade. The old meandering undersized ground buried supply wire had 20 feet taken out by the ditcher guy I'd hired. As a very three agency inspected sevice up grade would have added at least ~$4000. USD to permit, reditch, a new ground sevice to the well head at that time. My grid power useage is cheap, cheap. Service connects and upgrades Not.

Now I want to repump this well with a pump to be powered by one of my portables just for a couple of hours a day of in summer ueasge. Then be in my home back up plan.

So: what have you got in the bottom of your off grid wells? Are you happy with it? What would you do differently if you could?

Regards
Washington State Steve Unruh

[BruceM]

Hi Steve,
If you look at the GPH vs amps for a variety of 240VAC submersible centrifugal pumps you'll see that the larger pumps are more efficient, and also that 3 phase pumps are even more efficient.  If you're pumping to a storage tank, you might want to go with the largest size your genset can start.  The start/run difference is less for 3 phase, so if you were dedicating a genset, I'd think seriously about 3 phase.

If you had enough sun in summer for PV pumping, the Grundfos SQflex pumps are one of the best of the solar pumps, but not nearly as long lived as the typical AC centrifugal pump. 

I'm still running a 1/2 hp AC centrifugal pump. 

[Curbie]

Steve,

When I looked at the issue some time ago for off-grid use, I was looking at "Airlift" pumps or cisterns depending on typical climate data, rainfall for cisterns and wind to drive air pumps for the airlift. Let me know if you're interested in my research for either or compiled typical meteorological year data for your location.

Curbie

[Tom Reed]

+1 on the SQFlex and +1 on the short lived. My SQFlex pump would pump 5gpm at a lift of 300' using 500w, but it only lasted 3 years. The new Gould 1/2 hp uses 1400w for the same flow.

[BruceM]

Tom, several of my off grid friends in this area have had the same experience;  SQflex lasts to the 3rd year, warranty over, then they fail.  Too much fragile electronics in the pump, I suspect.  Pity they don't just put a small 3 phase motor on it and put all the AC/DC inverter electronics topside.  Around here it's $500. labor to swap out a pump.

Even worse reliability record around here for the other solar pumps, alas.  SQflex is still the king of the PV water pumps.

[mike90045]

1)  get the smallest 3 ph motor / pump combo that meets your water needs  (use the pump curve charts)

2)  use a electronic 3-phase variable speed soft start motor controller to spin it up, and many of them convert 1 ph to 3 ph

3) use genset or pure sine inverter to feed the controller.  The VSD helps keep starting demand surge way down, and you don't need a huge generator or inverter to supply surge power.  It does need to meet running power +20% at minimum.


my rig:
Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run

[SteveU.]

Thanks for the feedback and experience so far guys. Keep it up. Learned experience is the best teacher.
We each will have a unique situation to solve the same problem - reliable clean sanitary water.

I already have this well. 4" casing. For me (us) really a matter of use it grandfathered in for "agricultural and garden use only" or politically we will lose it.

I had seen already that the Grundfos SQFlex/Lorentz PS/SunRotors were an electronically dependent solution. As good as the warrantee. When we remodeled back in 1995/96 again state and local political/regs forced us to drop out  wood stove heating as the only, and put in a Primary non-wood whole house heating system. Every central manufacturers systems by then had electronics dependencies except Cadet style wall heaters. I got family outvoted on propane. The wall heaters have too many furniture restrictions and are room noisy. So the cheapest central electric bid in. Now only 16 years later I've had to have two electronic unitized control panels changed out and then later did a two of three heating element change out myself. Lots of layers and screws to do this on a Coleman. Bad as the 6-12 hour heater core change out in most vehicles. Yep, cheaped out on this side and spent the good money putting a certified, inspected woodstove heat capability back in as "secondary", "pleasure". IT needs NO electricity and is quiet. The central Coleman is nice for summer, early fall chill breaking. Electronic control panel is now dieing again and I am having to manually cycle it. I swear this time I will go bone out the furnace system in an old mobile home and go back to old style electromechanical relays and sequencer.

My year round solar energy here is stored in the wood of my grow year round trees. So my investment dollars have gone into making this as my DYI base energy source. We have no AC needs here. Nothings free or even cheap without work and effort.

To get the first step of the water above the ground I am now looking seriously at the Simple Pump system to start with to put the well back into visible usage.
Then an above ground, ground level storage tank system.
Finished up with SureFlow or Dankoff pressure demand pumping system.
Paper design system yet so far and I would like any feed back on anyone using these components.

My water table will be down now for the next 1 1/2 months for me to pull out the existing and get the in well part of it done DYI.

Thanks
Steve Unruh

[fuelfarmer]

I know this is not that helpful, but this could get you a drink.

http://www.lehmans.com/store/Water___Buckets___Galvanized_Well_Bucket___550202#550202

[miket]

I have a SDS-D-128 Sunpump, 160 watts of pre-owned Solec PV80, 80 ft deep foot well, and 9000 gallons of storage. My tanks are on the hill above my house. 25 ft up for two and 45 for the third. System is on line for 4 years now. Doesn't pump fast at 1.5 gpm... but I always have water.

Used to burn 1 gallon of gas a week to pump water.  No mas!!

Works for me.

I suggest a little solid research into really good consumption numbers as a first solid step (the spreadsheet is yer friend!!). Build from there based on how long a reserve do you desire. I can literally go a year or more (I have a Sun Mar composting toilet).

mike

[SteveU.]

Hi All
Good responses. Thanks. Took me in directions with possibilities I would have never found otherwise.
Again each us us will have a unique situation with our own lemons  and a few oranges but with roughly the same needs.
I am attaching pictures to show mine.
1st picture is of my current well house tipped off showing the existing above ground set up; one of the two houses to the left; privately owned "old" power pole that feeds grid to the greenhouse, woodshed, freezers room and once underground to the in well submersible pump just visible above the blue pressure tank.
2nd picture with the main Garden just visible to the right. Note the brown grass from  seasonal drought and the now frost damaged garden to the right hand side.
Garden takes ~1200 gallons a day for a % of the growing system. Well by pumping down experience at lowest water table time of year can produce max 3000 gallons a day. Ha! Ha! Why the grass now allowed to go back to annually brown and dormant. Having the well already and with usable amounts of water are my Oranges.
3nd picture. Here are my Lemons. Well is located just 30 feet from the county road. Back in 1960 this was a gravel road serving just 6-8 households on three 1 mile spur dead end roads. Then just private timber country and national forest for 60 crow miles until Mt Adams, then Yakima.
NOW these same three dead end roads have ~70-100 households of people moved out past us to be Dead-enders. Most are fantastic but always a mix within their families of problem people. Chain link fences went up to keep our dogs In off of the road. Dogs to keep the problem people out and stealing from the softer hearted neighbors. This is managable. Much more difficult is the now County Building Department, Health Department, and a seemingly endless list of county and state officials up here now to protect us.
Ha! Ha! I know - just move away like other old local families did. Why? We did not change. "They" changed the world around us. Adapt and thrive. Our 3rd generation roadside garden is an example to many of the good young folk grew up here, move in here. We have 3rd generation gravesites picked and paid for.

So I only "need" this well now for the gardens and to be a SHTF back up for me and my good neighbors come the time of need. THIS will always come with a wind storm, wet heavy Cascade snow storm, or possibly the 4th big wildfire to sweep this valley or one of our volcanic mountains gods wakes up again.

So to keep this simple and managble for me as an individual I am focusing on the pump jack systems for the in-well part. 198 feet total depth. Need to pump from ~170 feet. My static water level varies from ~23 feet to some years in Oct, as far down as 130 feet.
Locating a genset, inverter, battery bank so close to this walking by road in a dire SHTF desperate situation will result in gun play. To tempting for theft even in normal times
Heck. I want to give the water away as a good neighborly service. I just WANT to give them a handle to let them pump it themselves.
The Simple Pump Deep Well System look great for self intstall and in-well maintenance.  But at the minimum for capacity. Their motorizing kit has some questionable reviews. And although capable of direct pumping into a pressure system very futile with anything at these low of flow rates.
The Bison Pump Deep Well System look to be fantastically built and would meet most of the wants and needs on my list. But has no motoring option. I'd have to roll my own. Not impossible; but SO MANY other projects already on the plate already.
Fuelfarmer was you had me then looking at Lehmans. Dip buckets are a real desparate measure. I've done this along with nieghbors for 30 days back in 1961?2? from a the only hand dug 60 foot well left after the Columbus Day Storm. Different time. Different concerns. No we did not even use a bleach wipe down for the many hands handled rope 'n bucket. SEEN doing this from the road and the neighboring in town Grundies would have the Health Depearment out forcing me to concrete fill my well to protect "thier" aquifer.
Ah! Ha! But Lehmans does have current production cast iron jack pumps, the drop pipes in both PVC and Iron, SS sucker rods and All Brass pumping chambers!!
They even list a motoerizing kit for some of these.
In the 2nd picture is my wife's green painted yard ornament old windmill pump I stuffed down inside one of her planters: F.E. Meyers & Bro Ashland ?? Pat. March 30 9? A shallow well pump only with pumping chamber located in it's cast pedestal base. One of those honeydo projects to get it concrete mounted to be another yard mowing obstacle.
A working  old style pump version would tickle her fancy. Meet Health Dept sealed well head regs. Give manual primary use. Secondary motorized use.
For the seasonal garden use an above ground pool would work out OK if I completly switched the garden to a low pressure trickler system.
Nearest rise on our valley bottom property is only ~20 feet high and 800+ feet away. The Town "Grundies" do not allow any constructing above 25 feet inside their town limits not even for the four churches. Be too expensive either way. Pool would be inside the fenced yard, yet still accessible for fire truck usage.

Lehmans has great deep well tutorial info if you follow out all of their Deep Well links.

Thanks guys.
Anybody else?

Steve Unruh