Too Much Antifreeze?

[LowGear]

Thob on the Lister Engine Forum wrote:

I did some reading about the Witte engine, that's not a radiator on top but a condenser.  The engine runs hot enough to create steam from the water, which rises into the condenser, condenses, and drips back into the engine.  Temperature is regulated by the boiling point of the water.  Nice and simple, except that it uses a fan on the condenser (belt driven) and operating temp varies with the amount of anti-freeze.  Too much anti-freeze raises the boiling point and it overheats.  I think I like the thermo-siphon better.

Mine has made it for 60 years so far so I'm staying with the stock system.  And yes I have seen Wittes just like mine that came from the factory with radiators.

Hmmmmmm,

I'll be changing the coolant this week due to some maintenance work.  I wonder what the minimum is for rust protection?  Alternatives you might suggest for those of us trapped in the Tropics and freezing just ain't the problem?

Casey

[mike90045]

50/50 antifreeze w/ 0 psi pressure, should be below 230F.  the pressure cap is what gives the anti-boil protection

[LowGear]

Thanks mike90045,

Do I want the unit running at 230 degrees? 

What do you think the minimum ratio is as far as rust prevention goes. 

I wonder why alcohol based chemicals rise the boiling point rather than lowering it towards 140 degree?

Casey

[Crofter]

I think the alcohols with water lowers the boiling point but ethylene glycol mixtures raise the boiling point of mixtures with water.

As far as corrosion goes, I believe you can get corrosion inhibitors separately that can be mixed with pure water if you do not need the freeze protection or elevated boiling temperatures of the mixture with glycol.

The main avenue of cooling with the evaporative condensing system is the property of nearly a thousand btu per pound of water required to evaporate it as opposed to the 1 BTU per pound of water to raise it each degree of temperature below 212.

The boiling point of around 225F. (50-50 mix)  might not be harmful at all to an engine such as a Witte but a thirty percent mix would be a bit lower boiling and probably give adequate corrosion and prevent frost cracking if it got cold enough to slush up.

[Thob]

Casey,

My information came from the "Witte Operation and Service Book" found on Arrow Engine's web site:

http://www.arrowengine.com/Literature/Other_Literature.php

This particular manual:

http://www.arrowengine.com/media/WitteCareandOperationManual.pdf

This manual applies to gas engines, but the information about coolant should apply diesels as well.  See the coolant information starting on about page 36 of the PDF, along with warnings about overheating.  There are charts there that show the freezing and boiling points with various mixtures.

Please don't take my comments about Witte engines as being negative; I just like the thermosiphon on Listers better.  Obviously, any engine that's older than I am and still working has a lot going for it!

[LowGear]

Hi Thob,

And here I was concerned about you being quoted on another site.  I'll download and check it out. 

Offended?  You should have read some of the mail I got when I joked about the Titanic being (deleted due to rethinking the course of the last time.)

What I got from you is an alternative to the manual that Wittemania sent to me.  [No, I'm knocking David.  He's a great resourse and makes life much easier for the Witte owner].  Under fuel it reads: "Don't use crude."  Neat engines.  They're all kind of scary when you don't understand them and those flywheels are just plain dangerous I don't care what side of the pond you sleep on.

Casey