Hybrid type vehicles and drive systems

[rcavictim]

A few years ago I started and almost finished building a human/electric hybrid motorcycle which fits within the legal definition of a e-bicycle.  No registration or liscense or insurance required.  I used a 28 volt, 1 kW army surplus generator as the motor and designed and built my own PWM speed controller.  I need to spend a few more days and finish this project before the inventory of 12 volt AGM's I bought for it get much farther past their shelf life.

I don't have stock of or experience fabricating with light weight chrome molly tubing so using mild steel this chassis got really heavy awfully fast.  I started with a Honda 360 twin.

That Chinese clone of the B&S Etek motor is a really good deal IMO.  I'd put in an order for two units right now if I had the dough to spare.  I expect to see the need for a serious, road speed capable EV down the road which I can charge from the wind as TSHTF gets into its advanced stages.  The power to weight ratio of that Etek motor compared to the generator in my e-bike project is hugely better as in about 1/20th the weight per hp.

[Henry W]

The problem I see is the weight of lead acid batteries. L.I. batteries are probably the way to go if they can be found cheap. From what I have been reading there are no cheap ones to be found. The only chance might be a bone yard. But I bet they are asking top dollar for them also.

Henry

[rcavictim]

The problem I see is the weight of lead acid batteries. L.I. batteries are probably the way to go if they can be found cheap. From what I have been reading there are no cheap ones to be found. The only chance might be a bone yard. But I bet they are asking top dollar for them also.

Henry

I inherited a large quantity of 100 Ah AGM batteries a few years ago that weighed 105 pounds each.  My e-bike was built to use four of these.  With 420 pounds of batteries, the rest of the machine and it's overweight rider the vehicle tipped the scales at over 800 lbs.  Best I could do was pedal it about 30 feet on level ashfault but shit, I'm almost 60.  That weighed fully half of what some compact cars weigh!!!    Anyhow those batteries were near dead and have since all died and gone to heaven and I almost followed them carrying 64 of the buggers down the stairs into my house basement and then back up again.  I have some much lighter Hawker 50 Ah AGM's now as new and that will take 240 lbs off the machine too.  Lead acid batteries are the wrong power source for practical EV's.

[BioHazard]

The problem I see is the weight of lead acid batteries. L.I. batteries are probably the way to go if they can be found cheap.

I think it's only a matter of time. The new LiFe batteries are quite amazing. They are supposed to last something like 3000 cycles at 100% discharge! And weigh maybe a tenth of a lead acid. Give 'em another 5-10 years.

[BioHazard]

I wonder what speed the pumps turn at in a Jet Ski?

I believe they are usually directly driven off the engine shaft, so whatever your engine RPMs are. 6000+ for 2 strokes. Unfortunately jets do not make the most efficient type of drive system, I'm not sure if that would be the best choice for electric. I think I've seen pics of an electric jet ski somewhere though...

[LowGear]

How do your Hawker 50 Ah AGM's stack up against these http://cgi.ebay.com/Trojan-SCS225-12V-130Ah-Group-30-Deep-Cycle-Battery-/370419966408?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item563ec021c8 on EBay?  I think these are a group 27 as are the Costco marines I'm going to experiment with before I drop $200 each for these Trojans.

Casey

[LowGear]

I went over to YouTube and have fallen out of love with the Jet Ski idea.  I did see a couple of pretty neat electric boats but they had propellers.  I sure hope the Polaris ATV goes better as I'm fitting the motor mount this week.

Casey

[rcavictim]

How do your Hawker 50 Ah AGM's stack up against these http://cgi.ebay.com/Trojan-SCS225-12V-130Ah-Group-30-Deep-Cycle-Battery-/370419966408?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item563ec021c8 on EBay?  I think these are a group 27 as are the Costco marines I'm going to experiment with before I drop $200 each for these Trojans.

Casey

My Hawkers are Valve Regulated Glass Mat and have a 12 or 14 year service lifetime.  These Trojans you linked to are flooded cell.  Big difference.  My Hawkers are only 50 Ah and twice or three times the price of those much larger Trojans.  The Trojans at 66 lbs. for a 130 Ah battery are very much lighter than an equivalent VRLA AGM so clearly there is a lot less lead in them than the Telecom grade batteries I have been buying.  I just scored fifteen 125 Ah Telecom grade AGMs that weigh 101 lbs each and cost $795.00 each.  No I didn't pay that much.

Marine batteriess are only halfway towards a true deep cycle design.  The worst are starting batteries with lots of thin plates to give high current for short bursts neeeded to crank an engine.  Those fail quickly, less than a year in power system use.  Even with true deep cycle batteries with heavy lead plates one should not regularly discharge below 50% SOC or battery life will be compromised.  Those giant 2 volt cells in glass that you see in telephone exchanges until a few years ago were designed to last 20 years and be used between 100% and 80% SOC.

I'd like to get a large bank of NiFe batteries.  They can be discharged to zero and left to sit without sulfating problems.  They last virtually forever.  Unfortunately they are only about 60% efficient but the long term reliability is very attractive for off grid storage.  They are heavy pigs like lead acid and similarly large so not a choice for an E vehicle.

[BioHazard]

Personally it's all about the warranty for me. What is it on those Costco batteries...2 years? I don't trust batteries, no matter what the brand, no matter what they cost. I've had more than a few $400 Hawkers not live up to their expectations and price range. Batteries are always a wear item, like brakes. And sometimes you get bad ones.

I figure if 4-8 Costco marine batteries can't last 2 years in my boat application I'll take them back, otherwise they paid for themselves.

This is why I'm more interested in "hybrid" type vehicle systems, rather than pure electric...'cause batteries are generally the largest purchase and have a relatively short shelf life. I might be ok with spending 3 grand on an electric motor, that will last near forever, but not so much on batteries...