air conditioner start up

[DRDEATH]

OK I have a question about the above site on exhaust chillers. There is way to much for me to even begin to understand so I tried to print it off. I cannot seem to get past page 23. I tried 3 times and even changed the page numbers on what I wanted the printer to print and it still would npt print. 5s this just me or has someone else found this? Mike

[DRDEATH]

I just recieved a call from a new furture member that I was telling about this forum and he had a HECK of an idea. He knows that the engine I am going to be using is a SOM air cooled. He thought a good way to lower the demands from the dryer would be to channel the air from the engine and just use a small 220 volt motor to turn the drum and bingo I would have a first class dryer. That really would be a good idea. I had already planned to use the air from the engine in the winter time to vent into the house for heat. They do it all of the time in the UK. You just have to make sure the exhaust is in good shape so you get clean air. I am also looking for some information on using the exhaust to provide the heat needed to run a gas air conditioner. Then again I would only need a small 220 volt motor to run the fan. I am sticking with 220 volt motors because the SOM is a 220 volt generator. That way all I will have to do is increase the HZ to 60 and control the voltage. This might be simpler than I expected. If anyone know why the exhaust would not work as a heat sourse for the airconditoner let me know. If anyone has any idea of a very simple method of using the exhaust to run the AC I would like to know that also. This idea is getting better every day.

[cognos]

There is no way I'd ever channel air that has been directly heated by the exhaust of an engine into the home. Of course, the risk here is carbon monoxide poisoning, should the exhaust have a hole in it.

I'd think that there's even some risk with using the cooling air from around the engine - it could be contaminated with exhaust, oil vapour, etc...

I know that regular gas and oil fired furnaces do this. The difference is in the certification of the designs - they are tested and known to be safe, and have non-lethal failure modes, for the most part...

I know that in  a well-designed exchanger system, with CO monitors in the home, the risk should be minimal. But there is too much variability in home-built design for it to be safe, in my opinion.

I'd say the same for the use in the dryer. Unless the dryer is outside.

Now - if the heated air is exchanged with a liquid that is the primary heat exchange medium - ya, no problem. Go for it.

Just my take on it, I tend to err towards safety...

[vdubnut62]

Cognos, didn't someone here say that by the time CO rose to lethal levels (from a diesel engine) that the smoke would be so thick that one would choke from the soot?
I have never heard of anyone dying from carbon monoxide poisoning from a diesel engine.

Just saying

Ron

[Crofter]

Diesel engines produce very little CO unless heavily loaded but the exhaust still contains many carcinogens. Any oil fumes from blowby, lube oil or fuel on the outside of an engine is not something to have blown into occupied space. Yes I know I have worked lots of projects with diesel engines inside or tokenly just outside the doors but construction workers are considered expendable. Cancer rates agree but we also typically dont have otherwise pristine lifestyles either.

The cooling air from around your diesel might not smell too bad or even noticeable to you but after a while you will find people in the theatre etc. sniffing at something on your clothes that their noses are no deadened to.

An air to air exchanger is not too expensive and would be a bit better approach.

[DRDEATH]

You know I really never thought of the smell being an issue. I think it might be right though because the air from the air foil would orginate from around the engine. It could have a stinky smell that probably would not be so noticable by the occupants of the house. I wonder if you could pull off the air and pass it through a copper coil in the back and it might work like the electric heating coil. It would probably not get as hot and you might need to run the dryer longer but if it is free air that would offset the amount of electricty to run the small motor in the back to turn the dryer and blower. I dont know somehow this has got to work. I also need to know if a gas air conditioner could be heated from the exhaust heat as opposed to natural gas heat. Then all I would have to worry about is a small motor running a fan to move the cold air. I know how refigerators in campers work I would guess gas powered air conditioners would work the same way just larger. Any thoughts? Mike

[Crofter]

DRDeath; I think you would need a rather large coil to pick up or dissipate the amount of heat needed to do the clothes drying. I think you will find that the air temperature from the exhaust of the engine cooling air is not really all that hot so with limited temperature differential you need a very large heat exchange surface area for a given BTU transfer.

I am not very familiar with that refrigeration process but again it becomes more efficient with higher temperature. Somewhere here or LE there is a chart of lister Exhaust gas temp. It has the problem of the sooty film insulation surface barrier that a clean gas flame would not as well as likely lower potential temperature. Heat transfer to or from a liquid sure is easier than the thousand fold less dense medium of a gas.

[slowspeed]

AS i sit at home in my easy chair watching B Ball game and looking at Cogen site on the putter.
My Ac is sucking $$ out of my pocket
we need to find a way to set up our listers to cool the house .My lister will be using free WVO.
So my unit is a 5 ton trane heat pump.
A friend of mine was about to buy a swamp cooler from me that I have at my shop.He has no grid power!
The cooler is powerd by 2 solar panels at 96 volt output no batterys.He did not take the cooler because after talking he found out that he would not have the water needed ,about 1 gal. every 10 min.
I then told him of an add I saw for a reffer unit on a Truck traler THERMO KING .By using free wvo to power the diesel engine he could cool a trailer or mobile home.
Could we use our Listers to power that unit?
If it were cooler outside id be working on it!!!!!
IM a NEWBEEE
Thanks all
Jeff

[mobile_bob]

build your genset into a small superinsulated shed, and use it to also drive
an automotive AC compressor

use the AC compressor airconditioner as a heat pump, in other words try as you might to remove
the heat from the room, and move it to the house for space heating, or
for clothes drying.

that way there is no smell, no fumes and no toxic gasses being transported to the living space.

the upside is you will be able to recover all the aircooled engine heat, all the radiant heat that it normally lost
and all the heat from the genhead as well, (or at least be able to get most of it.)

as a failsafe, you could put a thermostatically controlled shutter window to allow the heat from the room to escape
in case it gets to hot in there, which is not likely in the winter.

bob g

[mobile_bob]

it shouldn't get anywhere near hot, if the AC pump is in heat pump mode

bob g

[cognos]

I don't know of the actual levels of CO in any exhaust. I just know that where there's combustion, there's always the chance that CO will be formed. So I wouldn't do a primary ex gas/air heat exchanger for my home, primarily because of this possiblity.

Let alone all the other possible nasties, as mentioned above... even in just the cooling air around the engine.

[KeithO]

The lister ST manual actually mentions using the warmed cooling air for accommodation  areas and cupboards in the marine section .
I'm seriously considering blowing the warmed air from my Ruston under my floor boards (house is on piles)
Might take the chill off.

Keith

[DRDEATH]

See I have talked to several people who do this. The air foil actually is desgined for an air duct. Now I dont know before I get it if it will work or not. I would guess it might depend on where the air comes from to begin with. If it can be drawn in from an outside source then it would be fresh. As long as the exhaust does not dump close to the air intake it should be kept fresh hot air. I will just have to wait until it gets here. When I experiment I will let everyone know. I am not going to write it off before I try. If it stays clean then the next step will be a lister dryer. Then I will need to figure out a way to make an heat exchanger to keep exhaust fumes away from the gas airconditioner but still use the heat to work the unit instead of natural gas. Mike

[KeithO]

I've changed my mind = I was wrong.

My Ruston  has done in its rear (fan end) crank seal and is blowing oil all over the place including past the cylinder fins,
If I had plumbed the hot air directly into or under my house I would have had a big smelly problem.
An air/air heat exchanger seems to be a better/safer option'

Keith

[rcavictim]

Oils well that ends well!