Alternator transformer/rectifier remote mounted (test 1.0)

[mobile_bob]

"it ships tomorrow"


"IT" ?


oh boy, is it an early christmas present?

is it a pony?

lmao

ok, my curiosity is up, i will keep an eye on the mail lady, she and the fedex gal are getting to really hate me.

although the fedex gal now very gingerly hand delivers my stuff right to my door, after catching her
a few months ago pitching a box with 8grand worth of inverter out the back of her step van onto the pavement!

she got an ear full and an education about stuff that usually comes to my door, if it is marked fragile, "assume it is from the "ming" dynasty"

so far she has been a model citizen when it comes to handling my stuff

now if i could just get UPS to follow suit

(no chance of that every happening)

bob g

[Fat Charlie]

so far she has been a model citizen when it comes to handling my stuff

now if i could just get UPS to follow suit

(no chance of that every happening)

bob g

UPS isn't so bad.  UPS Next Day on the other hand, that's a sure-fire way to get a box full of shrapnel.

[mobile_bob]

Lloyd:

i like my "Torogen" design better, but as usual a parent is partial to his own creation 

btw, i got the package today! 
thanks, i think i have just the place for it!

i am going to check to see if it will fit around the catcon, i think it will, just haven't checked yet.

thanks a lot! 

bob g

[mobile_bob]

Lloyd:

refresh my memory, who is KEI?

at what cost can he deliver 220amps hot at 14.5volts?

sorry, if i don't recall, and it has been posted earlier, just been really busy lately
and too many irons in the fire.

also can he provide torque vs rpm at each output point on the graph, so we can determine
the units relative efficiency?

bob g

[mobile_bob]

Lloyd:

i don't know how to advise you one either parallel or separate connected stators

i am not sure which alternator he is building on, is it the neihoff?

if he is building a 12volt nominal alternator for you, that will put out 220amps hot, that is all well
and good, but how are you going to get around the issue of 30-35ft of transmission?

or is he winding the stators for highvoltage, so that you can use transformers to step back down?

without knowing more about which alternator, how it is to be wound, its output voltage @ design rpm
its hard for me to get my head around what exactly the plan is.

got anymore details you can share?

bob g

[mobile_bob]

the alternator illustrated is a leece neville product, pad mount style

it is a single stator, single rotor design, and

i am unclear as to the spec's on the stator winding, the stock stator can be connected as delta or wye, however
i am not sure what he has in mind for dual output, unless he is dual winding the stator
which is common on the oem unit to start with.

its really important to know the spec's on the stator, how it is wound, how many turns per pole, what gauge wire, number
in hand, and insulation class,, and most of all what will the voltage be at a design speed you want to run at.

what will you be using to drive the alternator with? will it be a variable speed engine or a fixed speed engine?

i have lots of questions, because i have been down this path before with other folks that get roped in on some high output
alternator only to find that it is a very poor match to their end use.

its really easy for misunderstandings to take place, and have someone sell you what they think you need rather than what you really need.

your project is outside the box in several ways, and i don't want to be responsible for recommendations when i have no control over what the builder is supplying, especially when i am totally unsure of what he is presenting.

i don't know if that makes sense of not?

btw, yes you will have to excite the alternator, it has a wound field and is 12volts, the balmar will handle that chore nicely.

bob g

[mobile_bob]

Lloyd:

looks like you are on track with the builder, the only question remains what windings for what transformer
does he have a transformer pack to work with?

the leece neville 270 is wound as delta, 4wires in hand, so basically it has 4 stators connected in parallel
it could be seperated to form 4 wye windings all in parallel, 2wye and 2delta, or other combinations.

as for dual field windings, i see no advantage there at all, unless i am missing something. they would both be
wound on the common spool and work to energize the common clawpole set, so getting dual voltage would not be
possible? and in your case unnecessary anyway?

his use of 11gage wire is wholly unnecessary and might be counterproductive to getting the voltage needed to go
to the transformers.

if he has built units to be use with transformer before he ought to have a set to work with, or you might want him to work
closely with a transformer manufacture so that he can wind to fit an available off the shelf transformer or the transformer guy
can work to match what he has to work with?  in the best of all worlds that is the be advise i can give you or anyone, that being
if you have a custom builder on tap, get him with a transformer engineer so that they can work together to make a matched unit.

i hope that makes sense?

bob g

[mobile_bob]

it looks like the snuggy will fit the cat just fine!

thanks a lot, i owe you one.

nothing like a hot cat now is there.

bob g

[mobile_bob]

no idea of their patent number, and quite frankly i would be surprised if it would be found to be useful
most of what they have is the program "code" the rest is something that is almost unpatentable anyway.

it looks like balmar makes xantrex and leece neville regulator, and probably others

i wonder what the priceing structure is from leece neville for the regulator?

guess i will have to check

bob g

[mobile_bob]

yes i go back about 10 years with otherpower.com, back to their first forum
and i also know Ed and windstuffnow

both are good resources for windpower

neither can use transformers very well, because windpower although being AC is such low hz, requiring lots of iron
and those boys don't like losses at all.

here is an early collaboration

http://windstuffnow.com/main/poured_stator.htm

Ed is a very sharp fellow, and as nice a guy as they come

bob g

[mobile_bob]

sorry i haven't had time to fully absorb or get my head around what it is you are trying to arrive at with the tables.

perhaps you can tell me what it is you are trying to get down to, or what it is you need to derive from such a table?

its kind of hard for me to get a grip on what your after, mainly because i am moving in a completely different direction, and
i got way too many irons in the fire so to speak.

a 12volt system is just about a whole different animal from a 48volt system, at least this is what i am finding out.
and coupled with your need for such a long distance to transmit the power,, and it is just such an odd setup that flies in the
face of everything that we strive to work against.

we move toward higher voltages to reduce losses
we put generation and the batteries as physically close as possible to reduce line losses

your system on the other hand is about the polar opposite in my opinion, and whats worse
i am not sure what there is to be learned that will be useful for the purposes of others?

add to all that your desire for ~225-250amps to the batteries

you have a very unique set of circumstances, and the solution to the problems involved are as "one off" as any i have come across.

i am beginning to think  you might be better  off hiring an EE to sort this one out, and help you come up with a solution that is not only workable
but reliable.

color me perplexed



bob g

[mobile_bob]

Lloyd:

sorry if my prior post seemed a bit stand offish, not my intent at all.

have you ordered the custom alternator with the extra stators yet?
i am kind of curious what you end up with, and how best to apply them to get done what it is you need done.

bob g

[Lloyd]

No Worries here Bob...

I started to feel like I spilled the milk on your thread, so I quietly mopped up..no crying.

I am in a final resolve...and will post it to my perky topic...when resolved.

Lloyd

[Lloyd]

Bob,

I found more of your tracks...this time over at eng-tips....

You can't imagine how many time I find your tracks in my hunt for the holy grail....hehehe

ok,

I attached a spreadsheet, which is a model that I am working on. My goal is to learn, by understanding. So if you will confirm the numbers of your... sys...especially, did you take a stator omh test, and what is that reading?

Lloyd

[mobile_bob]

the stator resistance, phase to phase is probably pretty close to .170 ohms, getting an accurate measurement of a low resistance
stator coil is nearly impossible in my opinion

you reported 22.x amps ac phase to phase is actually the total current flow in the three phase circuit, rather than phase to phase
phase to phase is about 13amps x 1.73 = 22.49amps

the dc open circuit is about 25-26vc, that is after the transformer and rectifier

the dc is clamped down by the battery to 14.5vdc in testing

the rotor voltage is ~13.5vdc

all the prior is from memory, i will take more accurate numbers sunday, before i break it down for change of stator to go back to my normally
scheduled testing at 48vdc nominal

i will also come back with the calcs for efficiency, i don't recall just now what i figured it was, save for it was about 63% , but
i don't recall if that was the alternator efficiency before losses from the transformer pack or if that included transformer losses.

bob g