WOW...Old Tech Reinvented

[Lloyd]

Well,

So far as I can tell they are doing everything right. They are in fact just licensing their technology. The transaction with Kirloskar..is a license/JV, it's pretty smart to contract to have someone pay 2 million on top of license, royalties, profit sharing, plus the 250k sign up bonus. Especially if they are a Global Company with a track record.

We should all be so Lucky.

Lloyd

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirloskar_Group

Revenue    $3.50 Billion USD (2008)
Employees    ~20,000 (2004)
Website    www.kirloskar.com

The Kirloskar Group (consisting of Kirloskar Brothers Limited, Kirloskar Oil Engines, Kirloskar Ferrous Industries, Kirloskar Pneumatic Company, Kirloskar Ebara Pumps Ltd, Kirloskar Construction And Engineers Ltd, SPP Pumps (UK), Gondwana Engineers Ltd, and The Kolhapur Steels Ltd) is India's largest Engineering and Construction Conglomerate with sales exceeding $3.5 billion. The Kirloskar Group today exports to over 70 countries, especially within India and over most of Africa, South East Asia and Europe.

[Lloyd]

Kirloskar Oil Engines Enters Binding MOU for Joint Venture Mass Production of Axial Vector Engines
Marketwire
February 01, 2010: 06:22 AM ET

Axial Vector Energy Corporation ("AVEC") (PINKSHEETS: AXVC) (FRANKFURT: BAE1) announced today the signing of a binding MOU with Kirloskar Oil Engines (KOEL) (http://kirloskarapps.kirloskar.com/kirloskar/web/home.html) to make ready for mass production of its multi fuel engines and the building of mass production lines for its engines in a Joint Venture which will be held 76% by KOEL and 24% by Axial Vector.

Agreement components include:

Technology development payment to Axial Vector by KOEL of $250,000 USD.

KOEL initially shall bear 100% of costs relating to Joint development of Engines for up to a limit of $2,000,000 USD of costs for making the engines ready for mass production.

The intention of both parties is to form the Joint Venture in India for mass production of internal combustion engines using the opposed cylinder with unique crankshaft technology of Axial Vector and the engineering, marketing and manufacturing expertise of KOEL.

Axial Vector to enter into a patent license agreement to the JV on its technology.

Axial Vector to receive a five-year Royalty payment in addition to its JV ownership starting with 5% of product sales value.

The marketing rights of the Joint Venture Company shall extend to all SAARC countries (India, Sri Lanka, Nepal, Bhutan, Maldives, Bangladesh and Pakistan).

Mr. Rahul Kirloskar, Director, Kirloskar Oil Engines Limited, commented, "Our association with the company (AVEC) has been for over five years during which we have monitored various stages of development of Axial Vector Engines. We believe this engine is a major breakthrough, which will improve various efficiencies involved in a typical Internal Combustion Engine. We see good potential once it gets successfully developed and will benefit both industry and our company's shareholders."

[quinnf]

Lloyd,

I guess you're the kind of guy who sees the glass as being half full.  I, on the other hand, am squinting to see if the little things floating in it are wiggling, or just harmless dust.

Quinn

[Cornelius]

That engine being an old design which was abandoned, wouldn't mean that it's hopeless...

Take a look at the Wankel engine which saw its first light in 1957; it didn't get much popularity, but it worked ok except for durability... Today, only Mazda RX series uses the Wankel; the RX-8 has an 1.3 litres engine, producing 230hp, and it's much more durable than it's ancestor. Pity that we don't see more of the wankel...

I think it's much the same for this axial engine; the quality of the materials are much better today than 100 years ago, and the technical knowledge has advanced considerably, and the concept are excellent, i think.

My thoughts...

[quinnf]

That engine being an old design which was abandoned, wouldn't mean that it's hopeless...

No argument there.  However I wonder where the claimed efficiency gain of the axial configuration comes from.  It's still a reciprocating engine with pistons going "boing-boing-boing," as the old Mazda commercial had it.  I just don't see any magic in the design, and plenty of challenges in making that kind of linkage durable.  

If the magic is in the engine control system, that can be done on a standard configuration engine, too.  So the (claimed) difference has to be in the mechanical configuration.  Parts count doesn't look to be much, if at all, reduced.  So I'm scratching my head while wishing the company the best.  But I just don't see anything in the design that grabs me.  

Quinn  

[mobile_bob]

somebody point me to the stated efficiency for the engine???

i see their stated efficiency of 98.6% (or something like that) for the axial generator
which is remotely possible under certain conditions, but

so far i haven't found where the engine efficiency numbers are stated.

bob g

[quinnf]

It was a comment in the linked video.

I guess what's bothersome is that the conversion of reciprocating motion to rotational motion through the swashplate seems (to me) to be a real challenge to the efficiency of the design.  Any time motion changes direction, there are losses.  One reason Front Wheel Drive wins out against RWD in economy cars these days.  Rotational energy doesn't have to change direction. 

Then again, they've been using that concept for years in refrigeration compressors, so maybe I'm straining at gnats.  Wouldn't be the first time I had bugs in my teeth.

q.

[Lloyd]

Bob I'll look, but IIRC it's about 40% more efficient over a standard ICE diesel.

Quinn, part of their apparent success come from the modified design of the swashplate...which they received a new patent for. Also another fact is the increased torque, along with the increased hp to weight ratio from the opposing piston.

What's also interesting is they are planning to start production of the axialfux ac dc motors, as being more efficient than induction motors, in a range of 1-20 hp.


Lloyd

The arrangement also allows the compression ratio of the engine to be changed whilst running by adjusting the distance of the plate from the cylinders.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swashplate_engine

[Lloyd]

 Axial Vector™ Engine

by Steve
Thursday, August 04, 2005   

Axial Vector EngineThe new "Axial Vector Engine" has 12 cylinders, with 6 "double-ended" pistons. The drive shaft is in the middle, and the cylinders and pistons surround it. The company that makes it "Axial Vection Engine Corporation", identifies this technology as "Barrel-Type Internal Combustion Engine".

There's a lot of technical-speak describing this new concept in engine design. But to sum it, it is much lighter than the traditional combustion engine configurations, allowing for a great power-to-weight ratio. It has 80% fewer moving parts, which greatly reduces friction, and reduces heat. It's also 50% smaller than standard engines.

It will pump out 200 HP at just 2,000 RPMS, and 650 ft-lb torque at just 1,200 RPMS. It has a 373 cubic inch displacement.

The company forsees a wide variety of applications, but notes that this model would be perfect for hybrid vehicles, because of its light-weight.



This is what was formerly known as the "DynaCam" engine and before that, originally the "Palmer HemiCam" engine, invented and certified by the FAA for use in aircraft in 1957. Palmer's son Dennis (an old friend of mine)and a partner tried marketing this for many years and eventually had it stolen through litigation by a company called Axial Vector Engine Co. (AVEC) which is based in the United Arab Emirates.
AVEC has corrupted the original design, which was the most efficient piston engine ever developed. Bob Ford, Moreno Valley, CA

By Anonymous Anonymous,

[Jedon]

Take a look at the Wankel engine which saw its first light in 1957; it didn't get much popularity, but it worked ok except for durability... Today, only Mazda RX series uses the Wankel; the RX-8 has an 1.3 litres engine, producing 230hp, and it's much more durable than it's ancestor. Pity that we don't see more of the wankel...

I have an RX-7 ( 3rd gen ) and have a rotor housing with rotor and e-shaft on my desk at work about 2ft from me. Although the engine is simple, the engine bay certainly isn't, it's all modern computer controlled fuel injection and timing etc although my brother has a 1st gen with a carb etc. His seems to be missing a couple turbos though :-D

[Lloyd]

This is a wankel
http://www.me.berkeley.edu/cpl/media/memsff01.pdf

Two years ago, when Berkeley mechanical engineering professor
Carlos Fernandez-Pello first suggested building an internal
combustion engine smaller than a millimeter in size, his colleagues
said it could not be done. Now, as Fernandez-Pello tests a working
engine the size of a penny — an intermediate step toward the even
smaller micro-engine he envisions — his colleagues have admitted how
wrong they were. These days, even his critics talk about how best to
use a micro-engine in everything from remote sensors to mini-rovers.
And they have begun to realize just how much the tiny engines could
change the way they think about power, engines, and batteries.

[quinnf]

Bob I'll look, but IIRC it's about 40% more efficient over a standard ICE diesel.

I wonder if they're talking about brake specific fuel consumption, and not something else, like power/weight.  If the former, I find that really hard to believe.  Let's see some specific fuel consumption data. 

Lloyd, thanks for continuing to dig out and post information.  I'm trying to not be too negative.  I just want to see more data and less marketing puffery.

Quinn