Changlian 30hp ZS1130

[DirtMerchant]

My first post here at Microcogen, below is the first smoke from my new Changlian 30hp ZS1130. This is a very large engine, the hand crank that comes with it must be an ornament for hanging on the wall because there is no way you could start the engine with it.

Added oil, fuel, battery and cables, did a little bleeding and it started right up on the first compression stroke. Just posting this for others that might be interested in this particular brand or a 30hp monster, I had a difficult time finding any information on it before it arrived.

[artificer]

Concerning the hand crank:  did you activate the de-compression lever before trying to crank the engine?  Typical starting method for crank starting is to depress the lever, crank the engine to get some speed going, release the lever, and power through  the compression stroke.

At 30hp, I can see it being a problem to start even with the use of the de-compression lever.

Where are you located?  How much was the engine?

Michael

[millman56]

The inertia of a generator or large flywheels make all the difference, a hand start 15 HP MAG (Swiss) single cylinder diesel which was virtually impossible to start alone,   was recently built into a  welding set,  it now starts easily by hand.

Some years ago I owned a Jenbacherwerke (Austrian) 78 CFM compressor with very large flywheels,  this had a single cylinder, 20 + hp diesel engine laid out horizontally,  on the same crank throw and crank case was a single cylinder compressor pump arranged at 90 deg vertically to the engine cyl.   
This was electric start but could be hand started relatively easily by a younger and fitter me.

Petter PH2 engines are believe it or not, easier to hand start without using the decompressor at all.

Anyone who has made a starting handle for a larger diesel engine and got it wrong will know that your actual body position in relation to the compression stroke is critical.

Mark.

[DirtMerchant]

Concerning the hand crank:  did you activate the de-compression lever before trying to crank the engine?  Typical starting method for crank starting is to depress the lever, crank the engine to get some speed going, release the lever, and power through  the compression stroke.

At 30hp, I can see it being a problem to start even with the use of the de-compression lever.

Where are you located?  How much was the engine?

Michael

Yes I did use the decompression lever, the flywheel on this has little inertia and even spinning it as fast as i could it would simply bounce back on the compression stroke.

I am located in Michigan, up near Deford in the thumb.

I have $1200 in the engine, still debating on whether to keep it and build it into a generator or sell it and just buy a 4cyl lister petter genset.....

[DirtMerchant]

The inertia of a generator or large flywheels make all the difference, a hand start 15 HP MAG (Swiss) single cylinder diesel which was virtually impossible to start alone,   was recently built into a  welding set,  it now starts easily by hand.

Some years ago I owned a Jenbacherwerke (Austrian) 78 CFM compressor with very large flywheels,  this had a single cylinder, 20 + hp diesel engine laid out horizontally,  on the same crank throw and crank case was a single cylinder compressor pump arranged at 90 deg vertically to the engine cyl.   
This was electric start but could be hand started relatively easily by a younger and fitter me.

Petter PH2 engines are believe it or not, easier to hand start without using the decompressor at all.

Anyone who has made a starting handle for a larger diesel engine and got it wrong will know that your actual body position in relation to the compression stroke is critical.

Mark.

I found out the hard way, being on the wrong side of the compression stroke, when it bounced it pulled something in my wrist, not going to make that mistake twice, its been more than a week and it still hurts to remind me...

[mobile_bob]

in my opinion, no one short of maybe 250lbs and physically very fit, and with very good reflexes is "ever" going to reliably start these monster singles from china

bare in mind they are made to run at ~2000-2200rpm, and as such have about a quarter of the flywheel mass of a similar low speed single cylinder engine which a healthy man can start.

without the mass it is just not going to happen for 99% of folks, best to throw the hand crank away rather than be lured into getting injured.

it is said that an olympic cyclist can produce about 1/2 hp pedaling a bike at peak power, and not for long.. its a safe bet an olympic arm wrestler is not going to exceed that capability with one arm?

a half hp is just not enough to crank up one of these beasts, let alone do so with a generator belted to it, or do it when it is cold.

there is a reason the chinese strapped a gear reduction starter onto that engine!  they got tired of burned up direct drive starter motors which btw have vastly more power than any man i have ever met.

yup, throw that damn crank hand away, before you get yourself or someone else badly injured.

bob g

[millman56]

   Well I can honestly say that I have hand started a dopey JP4    (with the help of a man on the decompressors  in summertime ) as so many others must have done with this engine as it did not have electric start before I aquired it.

Mark.

[mobile_bob]

one of the thing often overlooked with the chinese diesels is the gear ratio for the crank gear

in most single cylinder diesels one handcranks with the crank connected to the crankshaft
in the chinese singles the crank gear runs at something like half engine speed, so when you crank at maybe 10rpm the flywheel is turning something like 20rpm

that is a huge mechanical disadvantage in my opinion, it takes much more muscle to crank the sonofabeach over than it would if one were to be able to crank the thing right at the crankshaft.

i think the ratio is similar with this big beast?

bob g

[vdubnut62]

I can't even imagine.... my 16 horse ding a ling dong is tough enough to crank by hand and it's direct coupled to an st10 that gives even more rotating mass.
Ron.

[scrapman]

Starting large engines is a problem seen this over come in early 70s next door to where i worked ,the machine shop also rebuilt large diesel generators and their power back up was a single cylinder ,10ins piston diamentor ,30ins stroke ,6 ton flywheel and 50 kva alternator on compressed air start systems ,air tank at 600 psi gave 3 full  turns and always started .
Apprentices job to pump up tank from engine and then shutdown and power workers on strike they were using each day and he forgot to pump tank up so no start, the grandfather who built shed also for seen this problem and door was in line with drive way around back and alternator drive pulley of 20 belts only 10 used, 1/2 ins wire rope wrapped around unused part of pulley over the end of rope 12 times out the door and on to 40hp volkswagen combi van low gear full throttle and three people on flywheel to get started and away it went main problem was avoiding the rocks off driveway being thrown throw door way.
Peter

[DirtMerchant]

Starting large engines is a problem seen this over come in early 70s next door to where i worked ,the machine shop also rebuilt large diesel generators and their power back up was a single cylinder ,10ins piston diamentor ,30ins stroke ,6 ton flywheel and 50 kva alternator on compressed air start systems ,air tank at 600 psi gave 3 full  turns and always started .
Apprentices job to pump up tank from engine and then shutdown and power workers on strike they were using each day and he forgot to pump tank up so no start, the grandfather who built shed also for seen this problem and door was in line with drive way around back and alternator drive pulley of 20 belts only 10 used, 1/2 ins wire rope wrapped around unused part of pulley over the end of rope 12 times out the door and on to 40hp volkswagen combi van low gear full throttle and three people on flywheel to get started and away it went main problem was avoiding the rocks off driveway being thrown throw door way.
Peter

That must have been fun to watch, I can only imagine what a circus that would look like, 3 guys trying to turn the flywheel with flying rocks coming at them from the bus ....

[scrapman]

DirtMerchant
Yes it was fun at the time and the people were very good machinists ,large generators they rebuilt were 4/6/8 cylinders up to 20 ft long 14 ft high work included pistons ,sleeves. bearings cams ect from castings.crank and rod rebuilds and manufacture of injectors and pump elements from scratch.
It showed me that in times when normal methods don't work that its not the only way years later working building roads with very worn out gear the st2 air cooled lister on vibrating roller 1/4ins wire rope 5 turns on flywheel and pull with backhoe worked every time also starting international grader on frosty mornings was second gear 1/2 a tin of aero start and blade of d6 cat on tow bar swash tyres half flat with weight blade ,never had to go more than 10 ft.
Peter