All Oiled UP and where do we go?

[Lloyd]

Hi all,

I have a couple of vintage 1968 diesels , as a matter of fact they are PERKINS 6.354's. 8 years ago I did a major on both, new cylinders(ie: liners, including being line bored), pistons, cranks, cams, lifters, new heads ..well valves, seats, springs, and guides.

Now I find myself not being able to find the proper lube oil.

I manage about 150 hrs a year on these marine engines, With what I invested in them they should do 40K hrs, and that would be a couple of lifetimes for my physical self.

But now due to our governments(well educated public service employees), and the save the worlder's....now it seems that I can't buy off the shelf LUBE OIL that will allow me to see the investment, so most likely these diesel will never see the 40K hr potential, nor my remaining life accuracies.

So now I have to officially become an OIL BLENDER, to achieve my goals.

So I have settled on Shell Rotella T 15w40 which is made from a type II base oil, it use to have a good TBN, but now that it clogs cat, and diesel particulate filters no more.

So I found Rislone ZDDP

So here is my formula each engine holds 13 quarts. including filter. it's a twin engine.

7 quarts Shell Rotella T 15w40
2.5 quarts Shell Rotella T-1 30
1.5 quarts. Rislone ZDDP concentrate
1 quart Marvel Mystery Oil.

Lloyd

[mike90045]

I've always loved Marvel Mystery Oil, but what's in it, and why do you include it ?       

Why none of the synthetic oils ?  What is TBN ?

All I know is the zinc is gone (bad emissions ?)

[mobile_bob]

zinc poisons the cats, so they have all but completely eliminated it.
without zinc the flat tappets and cams take a lot of heat!  not much of a problem with
roller tappets, but older diesels don't use them.

you might also look into what mack recommends for oil in their diesel engine's, they too have probably gone to roller cams but their engine's used the older technology for many years after everyone else went to roller innards

the downside is mack oil historically smells like crap, much like old worn out detroit oil.

bob g

[Lloyd]

Here is the spec sheet and instructions for the Rislone ZDDP http://barsproducts.com/system/pdfs/408/original/4405%20Tech%20Sheet.pdf?1357914321

All of the older diesels the guys on this forum use can be helped by this product.

I'll bet Henry can enlighten us.

Lloyd

[SteveU.]

Hey Mr Lloyd
Have you ever read up, used or known use of International Lubricant Inc. synthetic whale oil lubricant supplements?
Seattle area company.
I've only ever in the past used thier auto transmission supplements with good results. This was before the OEM full systhetic fluids like Mercon V,  ATF4 and the GM Dexrtron advanced spec fluids. For now I just use the heartthrob full synthetic grades.
No recommending thier Lubegard full line. Just curious if you have a nay, yeah, experience with thier engine oil supplements.

www.lubegard.com/home.aspx

Regards
Steve Unruh

[Henry W]

Here is what I use but they not cheap.



These two are used in my diesel engines:

http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/motor-oil/diesel/synthetic-sae-10w-30-sae-30-heavy-duty-motor-oil/

http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/motor-oil/diesel/sae-15w-40-heavy-duty-diesel-and-marine-motor-oil/




This is used in all my air cooled 4-stroke engines;

http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/motor-oil/4-stroke/formula-4-stroke-10w-30-sae-30-small-engine-oil/




This is what I use in the 240 Volvo:

http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/produktdb.nsf/id/en_1091.html?Opendocument&land=GB&voilalang=e&voiladb=web.nsf

Check the PDF below for Tech data on this oil.

[Henry W]

Here are some oils that I heard good things about. If I can get some I am willing to use it.

http://www.schaefferoil.com/moly-bond-x200-straight-grade-engine-oil.html
http://www.schaefferoil.com/cmss_files/attachmentlibrary/TD%20Sheets/107.pdf

http://www.schaefferoil.com/moly-bond-x200.html
http://www.schaefferoil.com/cmss_files/attachmentlibrary/TD%20Sheets/151.pdf

http://www.schaefferoil.com/synthetic-plus-engine-oils.html
http://www.schaefferoil.com/cmss_files/attachmentlibrary/114CNG%20Logo.pdf

http://www.schaefferoil.com/synthetic-plus-engine-oil-114-s.html
http://www.schaefferoil.com/cmss_files/attachmentlibrary/TD%20Sheets/114S.pdf


Some good reading about stoichiometric and lean burning natural gas engines.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air%E2%80%93fuel_ratio

[Henry W]

Here is the spec sheet and instructions for the Rislone ZDDP http://barsproducts.com/system/pdfs/408/original/4405%20Tech%20Sheet.pdf?1357914321

All of the older diesels the guys on this forum use can be helped by this product.

I'll bet Henry can enlighten us.

Lloyd

I never used the stuff. I"ll have to read some more about this stuff. I have never been a fan of putting additives in oil or mixing blends of oils because there is a chance chemicals can interact and cause a mess. When some additives are used in some brands of oils, the oil foamed.


This is one site I go to at times to read. Just don't beleive everything you read. Most people that joined this forum are not chemists and are looking for answers. This is dangerous.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=cfrm


I found this article about foaming.
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/1765/foaming-in-oil

I always look for oils that meet the engines manufacture recomendations so I can't be any help at this time.

Henry

[Tom Reed]

I believe Swepco 306 oil has the additives you want and is available off the shelf.

[scrapman]

Lloyd
Mixing your one oil sounds like a bad idea with out a lot of research  suggest you look at Penriteoils.com in Australia for ideas.
peter

[Henry W]

Bob G. makes a good point. Check with Mack and see what they recommend on their older engines.

Henry

[Lloyd]

Hi Guys,

Well I finally changed the oil today using the recipe that I originally posted. I spoke with the a gent at the Shell Bulk plant who started there when he was 12, his father owned the place.

I came prepared with the tech sheet, and MSDS from Rislone ZDDP additive. Along with the Shell spec sheet, and MSDS from both the Rotella T1 30 single weight, and the the 15W-40 Shell Rotella T. Turns out he's an oil guy, and before I completed, he interrupted and said, first you have no problems mixing the 2 shell oils as the are from the same base stock, with almost identical additive packages. Both are API certified CF or better, both are low sulfated ash.

He said what you need to be concerned with is the oil shearing of the multi-grade oils. I also brought with me my original Perkins manuals which listed the oil spec, the original manufacture's spec. He pulled out a 3 ring binder from years gone by and we compared the original spec oil API rating, for shear, Sulfated Ash, Zinc, and Phosphorus.

We concluded with that with my recipe, that I would have a better oil then original spec meeting all of the requirements, and then some because. He felt that the amount of Rislone being aded would raise the ZDDP to levels of the original spec. Rotella T is made from a type II base oil, and the original spec is from a type I base oil, which increase its shear value, and luberosity.



So now comes time for the oil change. First the port engine, but it's also time to adjust the valves, as I'm at 400 hrs since the last time. My Perkins manual say to adjust em hot at .010, and the service bulletin says adjust em cold .012. So I have concluded that I will adjust em cold and check em hot with a .010 go/no-go .011 feeler gauge.

The last time the valves were adjusted, I hired a well known local Perkins mechanic, as I just didn't have time to do em. So cold after 400 hrs I found a couple of intakes that were a little tight go/no-go .011/.012, and a couple exhaust that were loose go/no-go .013-.014. I checked and adjusted so all were in spec. Start the engine run it in gear at the dock, until they are up to temp.. Then check the valves hot all are go.010, no-go .011. So I change the oil and filter.

Next the Starboard engine, pop the valve cover, and run #1 cylinder up to compression stoke with, and with wholly shit .012 is really sloppy, I don't hit a no-go until 16 for both exhaust, and intake. I make the the adjustment  as require, the move to the next cylinder it again is a no-go at .016, so I work my way though the remaining 4 cylinders and they are all no-go at .016.

Now I Know my Perkins has flat tappets, but being a reasonable man I know that 12 tappets are not going to wear that exact same. Both engines were rebuilt at the same time, and both have run the same amount of hours, with the same oil change regimes. The only conclusion is the hire mechanic picked the wrong feeler gauge when he got to this engine. I have been ruining now for about 3 years since the last valve adjustment, and I manage about 125 hrs a year.

So I start it up, and at Idle I'm completely surprised she is running as smooth as I can't believe. It's a Night and Day difference, I'm shocked that I didn't notice in the past 3 years what a difference proper valve adjustment made. Well i did sort of notice that the Pyros showed and elevated EGT on that engine, but at idle the were with in 25F, it wasn't until I got above 2200rpm or I was running against a tide that this engine would show about a rise of100F difference on the Pyro.


So now I run her at the dock in gear, bring her up to temp, shut her down and check the valves all are go .010, no-go .011.

So I change the oil with my new recipe. Start her up, after oil is up I bring her up to 1,000 rpm I go back to the engine room, just as I get there BANG, POP and all kind of racket, to the what to me sounds like the engine coming completely apart. I ran back to the Helm, hit the kill switch.

Now back to the engine room which is in the cockpit with a deck hatch, my heart in my mouth, just then I hear a Harley with straight pipes revving through the parking lot, and a chopper landing at Ch13TV, which is just a block away.

That's when I realized I didn't blow my engine, yep sure as shit, no problems in the ER, so I restart her and shes purring like a kitten.

In the end it was a beautiful spring day in Seattle to do annual maintenance.

Lloyd

[quinnf]

Friday Harbor ought to be nice this time of year . . .

Quinn