Should we consider LP and Nat. Gas CHP systems instead of diesel?

[Henry W]

Kawasaki recommends 100 hr oil changes. We have very fine sand where I live. The engine was equiped with a good fleetgaurd daul filter system and oil cooler. This engine is used in what I call extreem operating conditions. Sand, heat, rain, extreem bumps, Full operating speed at 3600 rpm and having RPM's drop down to 2500 at times when I am mowing tall grass up a grade at just under 13 MPH. Bogging down any engine is abuse in my book and yes I am guilty doing it.

Plugs are changed every thousand hours.

I feel this engine has served me well. It has 2628.2 hours. and still does not use any oil.

It is very easy to install an additional oil tank to any pressure lubed Kawasaki, Kohler or Briggs Vangaurd V-twin. They are all good engines and they run for a long time.

A couple things I like about Kohler is there customer service and dealer network are very good. My opinion is it's the best out of the big three in my area. Another thing is their industrial V-twins need no valve adjustment. They have true automotive hydralic lifters.

If you noticed I have not mentioned Honda V-twins. Well the dealer network is not as broad as the three I listed. Parts are way over priced. The engines did not have the performance as Kawasaki, Briggs and Kohler. When I tested mowers out before purchasing. Honda Engines Bogged down much easier when I tested z-turns out. Check and see how many comercial Z-turn mower manufactures use Honda. I can tell you very few. I know Honda had problems and pulled out of the comercial Z-turn mower market and sold there mower designes to Auburn Consolidated Industries because Honda found out most profesional lawn care companies do not want Honda engines on Z-turn mowers.
As you look deeper you will notice Honda do not offer Fleetgaurd or Donaldson Daul stage filters, which in my book are the two top comercial filters for extreem lawn care mowing use.

I do know Briggs Vangaurd, Kohler and Kawasaki are proven engines in the professional lawn care industry and you can't go wrong with these three. Just choose the brands that has a good network in your area and than pick the brand you feel comfortable with.

Henry

[pressurepro]

I sell new equipment that comes standard with Briggs Vanguard engines as the standard engine, Kohler and Honda are the option engines I can order.  I  only stock units with Kohler Command 18-27 hp horizontal engines in my business. If somebody insists on a Honda or a Briggs I will order it for them.  Honda V-twins IMHO are under powered for what they claim, expensive to fix and are hard to reliably get parts for. Have seen lots of valvetrain/cam gear failures with them also among other things. Only thing I have an issue with on the Kohler is a fuel pump failure once in awhile. My 2nd choice is the Briggs.... NO complaints whatsoever on those except keep a spare starter solenoid around cause the stock one sucks but a big screwdriver across the solenoid posts will get you running in a pinch ..The application that these engines are used in are industrial hot water pressure washers.... WOT from the turn of the key until they are shut down.   Just my 2 cents on the aircooled v-twin stuff I work with on a daily basis. 

[BioHazard]

It's good to know they can stand up to an abusive environment and high continuous RPMs. I would think cutting the RPMs in half, should extend the oil/plug change by double, no? I guess some kind of expensive platinum plugs or something would last a while. Of course running on NG would again extend engine life and oil changes. I would probably send a few oil samples to a lab to determine what the best change interval would be.

Honestly, I'm kinda interested in running the engine just to see how many hours it can last with the right care.  I don't think I've ever actually "worn out" an engine...they usually die from something else.

[Ronmar]

OR the vehicle/equipment they are on wears out:)

I have a sears riding lawnmower with a Koler Command Pro 27HP engine.  Been abusing that machine for nearly a decade now.  Doing things like busting/mowing 3' tall salal(back and ram:)) before I got my tractor and brushhog, as well as mowing most of my property grass without a single engine issue.  I change the oil regularly, and do my best to keep the crap blown clear of the air cooling passages and oil cooler.   I think I am only on my second set of plugs.  The configuration is a little bit easy for mice to get into, and have had to remove nests from the blower assembly a few times, and mice parts from the rest of the engine the times I have started it without looking for a nest first:)  But it still starts easilly, runs smooth and strong and dosn't consume any real oil(never has).  Seem to recall a experimental aircraft builder used a horizontal shaft version for an aircraft engine.  Would love to see a liquid cooled version of this engine as it would be easier to clean a radiator or debris screen than all the coweled cooling passages on the engine... In fact that is my only gripe with this engine, the cowels are difficult to remove to clean the cooling passages, which is not good for a mower engine. The rest of the mower is falling apart and I will need to replace it soon(few years, keep welding it back together when the hardware/structure fails:)) I will go zero turn next go around.  One of the popular options on the brand I am looking at is the 26HP water cooled Kawisaki, but other manufacturers still offer the Koler, and I am keeping my eyes on those models also.  But I really want a 60" or larger deck so will most likley need to go larger  in engine...

[SteveU.]

Hi Romar I echo the equipment wearing out around a good model, good brand well maintained engine!

Brands and models.
Honda is not as good as they think in these larger sizes. My complaint is too much damn breakable plastic on many of thier air boxes and air cleaner covers. Hurumn. ONLY small engine I've ever worn out was a Honda tiller that I did not notice the air cleaner cover broke off from a minor wooden post bump on a dry, dusty August between row weed tilling day. So Mr. Bio. One hour eating dust killed it. Would kill any engine. I've now had to tape on broken finger snap on cover on the wife Honda push mower for the same problem from a shrub rub.
Kohlers are good and have been excellant . . . unless they are one of the newer SINGLE CYLINDER COURAGE engines. Junk. Junk. Junk 300-500 hour lower crankcase failure specials. Look at the break down and see three different revisions in 7 years on a crankshaft mounted active rotating/oscillating counter weight assembly. These also use a roll pin through a straight shaft, lifter finger on their dual cam system instead of a well proven machined hardened lobe with a wear rotating round lifter
My wood splitter came with a Briggs and Stratton single cylinder 10.5 hp with some type of "Anti-Vibration System". Not going to say Nay just yet until a "B-S Scatter" event takes place.
My point is hard to recommend any brand without specifying a model series too.
In the V-Twins for Kohler it is the Command series. Some say the V-Twin Courages are OK too. I'd wait another 5 years on this.
B & S the good ones for sure are the Vanguard series.
I'll defer to those in the know about the Honda V-Twins.
ALL of the top line commercial stuff around here are Kawasaki air or water cooled V-Twins. NO failure that I've heard of.

Mr Bio. You do not want to loaded operate any of these 3600 RPM capable engines below 2200-2400 RPM. You are below the cam shaft/intake/exhaust designed maximum torque curve. You are below the effective designed air/water pump and oil pump RPM's ranges. This can be verified with loaded running temperate and pressure testing.
IMHO 1/2 at 1500 and 1800 Loaded running to too damn slow and will result in thermal breakdown and premature wear failures. These all idle at ~1200 rpm.

So there is two wear out factors to add to your wear out list: ANY abrasives in the air, oil or water; and spot localized overheating.

Long, long way from 1920's-30's-40's parifin and no additives lubricating oils to most 80's and todays wonder oil blends and CNC machinining and modern metalurgy that is now allowing RPM engines to live and work.

Regards
Steve Unruh

[Henry W]

An exception to Steves post is the Briggs Vanguard 2/LC engine. It has peak torque curve of 40 ftlbs @ 2000 rpm. This is the only proof I have of any of the V-twins having peak torque that low. Otherwise I would follow Steves recommendation of running All other V-twins at 2400 and above. Guys, it is time for some people on this forum to get out of living in the Stone age. These engines are not listeroids. They are designed to run at at speeds that does not produce much vibration. For example, I cannot get over that people are still locked in to take engines like the Kubota Z482 and those Yanmar 2 cylinder inlines and want to try to make a generator where the engine will run below the designed minimum recomended speed. Don't you think the engineer's went through lots of R and D before they published the engines designed speeds? Some of you might remember that I experemented with a Kubota Z482 operating speeds and came to the conclusion that the engineers at the generator manufactures were right with thier operating speeds. I would not want to see any Kubota Z482 run below 2550 RPM. Below that speed the engine produces to much vibration. Why try to make a modern engine that is not designed to run under the recommended speed at all?  It voids the engines warantee, The oil system is designed to operate at a certain speed to protect the engine. I think some members need to research critical engine speed. Bob G talked about this a few years back.

You want one of these V-twins last? Run it 100-200 rpm's over peak torque speed. Than install an external oil tank that holds 3 gallons. And than have an oil heater installed to keep the engine oil to a good operating temp. And also make sure that 3 Gallon tank is insulated. (That marathon engine holds 12 quarts, It has an oil heater and the oil sump is insulated.) Than those v-twins should run in excess of 20,000 hours easily.
Henry

[BioHazard]

Hmmm...I guess direct driving a gen head is out then. Probably would be best to go with a 48v system anyway, I'd like to install some solar panels too. I wish Marathon/Honda gave more info about their generating system. Would definately be interesting to put the whole house on batteries.

I'd probably put the whole thing into an insulated box, and try and keep the engine near operating temperature 24/7. That should help me collect heat from the alternator as well. I imagine less heating/cooling cycles will help the engine last.

[Henry W]

The generating system on the Marathon looks like an Eagle Pitcher copy. Who knows, Marathon might of bought that division of Eagle Pitcher. I sure would like to find out myself. I am hoping that the Eagle Pitcher Alternators I have will run around 2400 RPM when loaded. I need to pull the back alternator off the LRG-425 and mount it on the Vangaurd engine. A matter of fact, the Vangaurd came with an Eagle Pitcher 48 volt Alternator mounted. All this stuff I purchased came from a warehouse that stored telecom surplus equipment.

You keep any engine up to operating temp 24/7 the engine should last longer.

Henry

[BioHazard]

I just had a talk with my neighbor, he's got a big swimming pool/hot tub about 100 feet from me. Seems he might be interested in purchasing "heat" from me for the pool. That would be a fantastic dump in the summer, he has to heat the pool througout.

I get excited about the weirdest things.....

[Henry W]

You have your first customer! I should be able to help here. Find out how large the swimming pool is. Length x Width x Average depth x 7.48 will give aprox gallons. Finding the water surface area is most important.  This is where most heat is lost. Solar covers made out of bubble wrap floating on the water surface to help keep the heat from escaping.  Does the pool have a chlorine injection pump injecting a Sodium Hypochlorite solution. Find out if the pool system is on a timer, ect.

This would be a good opportunity for testing.

Henry