The Listeroid 6-1 is the ideal listeroid.

[cujet]

OK, this post is about how I feel about the various listeroids. Some emotion and some fact.

It's my opinion that the small single 6/1 has an advantage over many commercial gensets, including the famed Honda inverter sets. This is because of the meager fuel consumption, the actual power produced and the long engine life. Plus the ability to repair it quickly due to simplicity. It's not that efficient when actual BSFC (brake specific fuel consumption) numbers are crunched, with the listeroid quite far off the mark vs. modern normally aspirated diesels. Not to mention modern turbo diesels with half the BSFC of a Listeroid.

The advantage is it's modest output and therefore modest fuel burn. Another advantage is that the single can be balanced with a simple weight opposite the crank throw. While a single never balances perfectly, the listeroid 6/1 can be quite smooth if balanced properly.

The twin suffers from significantly higher vibration. This is due to a rocking couple effect of a 180 degree crankshaft. This crank also presents another problem Significant acceleration/deceleration of the engine due to the closely spaced power strokes and closely spaced compression strokes. It's impossible to balance out a rocking couple.

Plus the twin loads the camshaft idler gear twice as much. A weak spot as it is on a single. But worse than that, the twin is more than twice as complex. There are manifolds for intake, water in and water out. This means that cylinder alignment is dictated by the manifolds. Fact, it's really not that easy to remove one cylinder and head on a twin. Much more difficult than on a single

It's my opinion that the twin does not compete well with commercially available diesel engines either. The 12 to 25HP range is well covered by modern engines with superb reliability and smoothness. Not to mention superior BSFC numbers.

My twin, blueprinted, balanced, properly assembled and broken in, is still a clanky, vibrating monster with very questionable reliability and very poor AC power output quality.

I did not post this to hurt peoples feelings, however, I do believe it's worth mentioning.



This is a pic of the engines shortly after unpacking them.





This is my engine in it's complete form.



This is the same single as the first pic, with just a bit of work! Bob did a great job building it and here I am balancing it.

Chris

[T19]

I beg to differ.. the 10/1 is the best unit.  You get extra HP, you can govern it down to 650 if you wish, but most important... you get those nice big safe wheels


With a 6/1, you get those thin little girlie wheels

[cujet]

Hey T19,

That's not a 10/1 is it? Those things are horrible! It's sure to consume at least 1.2 pints of fuel per hour. Horrors.

I neglected to mention that simple variants of the 6/1 are included in my positive opinion of the 6/1. Bob's single pictured in my post above is run at 730-740 RPM.

I would sell my twin if I did not have a year of labor into getting it right.




Jens,

While the airport was where we took delivery of the listeroids, my home is where I built mine. You can clearly see the nature of my property under my listeroid. There is nothing clean about dirt and gravel.

Chris

[mobile_bob]

"shoulda bought a changfa"!!!



bob g

[WGB]

GIRLIE WHEELS!
Surly your not talking about those beautifully elegant rounds of massive power?

[XYZER]

I sure hated to see the old site got poof! Yes it had its issues but there were plenty of guys that had been there done that and if you learned to search you could find an answer to your problems. I hate to see information just disappearing, kind of like a book burning! I have learned plenty from both the slow and fast guys......I have pretty much come to the conclusion one needs at the minimum a 6 or 8/1 and at least a 5-6000watt high-speed electric start turn key diesel or gas unit. Some of us might even need one bigger than that..... CMD was really dialing in the 6/1 with electric start and the heavier flywheels and internally balanced. Pretty much the perfect Listeroid IMO.  Then the EPA had to crap on our parade! There isn't probably 100 Listeroids running at the same time in the US. They probably made more pollution with the paper and bureaucracy it involved to keep them out of the US than we pollute with them in a year.....who knows? Anyway......here are some things I have learned and some postings of my way of making a light bulb glow.

Thermostats;
I learned from others and experience that one needs a small bleed hole in it so we don't have an air lock. I also learned if you put several small holes in it you won't get the open close hot cold effect. It will allow the engine to warm at an even rate. Your holes may vary. 

Breather puking;
One of my 6/1's had a slight discharge from the breather. A rag wrapped around it kept it from making a mess. I did a tear down and paint, and while I had it apart I straightened up the precision sheet metal shield on the inside of the access cover that keeps oil from the breather hole. Well when I fired it up it became a major puker! I figured blow by!!   What I learned is if you restrict the area of the shield the velocity will increase carrying oil with it. It was an easy fix...I took a screwdriver and bent the $hit out of it and it looks worse than the original and there is zero puke!

Noisy Intake;
Having 2 6/1's one is super quiet and the other needed a intake silencer and still makes a racket. It is poor cam timing! Not much you can do except get another cam or just listen to it!

Balance;
I believe it should be done weather it is a resilient or concrete mount. It just takes time to do but is well worth it when you are finished.

Here is how I light my bulbs!

Dueling Portables
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOxPXGn6BWo



Portable Pumping
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9194771268947755783#


Kick ass Kubota Z482 AKA Cat Killer 

[mobile_bob]

i like "catkiller" now that is a nice compact unit
what is it driving? HF 10k genhead?

nice!

maybe you should post more pics of it and any writeup on its performance on the perkins/cat catagory
that is something that shouldn't be buried here in amongst listers in my opinion.
the guys building with the perk/cats might take a que from your work?

bob g

[mike90045]

   ........ Another advantage is that the single can be balanced with a simple weight opposite the crank throw. While a single never balances perfectly, the listeroid 6/1 can be quite smooth if balanced properly.  ..........  Chris

Can one open the crankcase hatch, and orient the crank, and locate flywheel weight opposite the crank throw.  just to get a bit into the ballpark.

[Crofter]

You dont have to remove the cover to see where the crank throw is but you would have to to to verify whether or not the crank was made for (and in deed had balance weights bolted on)

The weights I had to add to my counter weighted 10-1 were not in line with the throws and not the same for each flywheel. As far as smoothness of running goes, does it matter where the weights go as long as they cancel correctly?

[bschwartz]

The position of the flywheel (and it's built in counterweight) is positioned by the keyway cut in it and the keyway cut in the crank.  There is nothing to adjust.  All you can do is modify the weight/balance of the flywheel itself.  Many add stick on wheel weights on the inner rim of the flywheel to balance the engine.
I am currently doing a bit of grinding on one of my flywheels as it is WAY out of whack.  After I pulled the gib key and loosened the flywheel, I expected it to swing around with the cast weight down at 6:00.  One flywheel sat about 4:00!!!!!  My son and I are griding away slowly on the heavy side to try and correct things.

[Fat Charlie]

With a 6/1, you get those thin little girlie wheels

The girlie wheels may not be as rugged, but they sure are prettier.