Catastrophic engine failure

[rcavictim]

triple tink-le sounds like a prostate problem.... 

And if I relocate that little hyphen we get 'pro-state' which sounds to me like some overblown frigging hyped up and enormous waste of human energy and resources which can be blamed on US college football.

[Ronmar]

triple tink-le sounds like a prostate problem.... 

No, it's a hernia problem if you keep trying to start it without enough tink-ls

[mbryner]

The beast has been brought back to life.   So I double checked the fuel lines, re-bleeded them of any air.   Still no fire, but it did try to run in reverse easy enough.   Checked the timing using playdiesel's method (which makes perfect sense BTW).   Hmm.   The engine was retarded by about 4-5 inches past TDC on the flywheel rim.  That corresponds to 1 tooth off on the cam gear.   Utterpower CD says to set the fuel pump cam lobe to 10 o'clock position when at TDC, but on my machine it's actually closer to 11 o'clock.  Now it runs perfect.

Thank you all for the advice, but especially playdiesel.   Now, is there any drawback to using that cam timing method and why isn't it in the Lister manual?!!

Marcus

[mobile_bob]

not all engine's have symmetrical overlap like yours has, some will have assymeterical (sp is horrible)
overlap which makes it difficult to use that method, the problem is in knowing what overlap you have for sure.

as long as one is 10 before and the other 10 after (or somesuch) the method will work, if on the other hand
one is 10 before and the other is 20 after, it is not so easily done.

what i don't know for sure is which of the listeroids are not symmetrical, maybe that is why the manuals don't list the method?

next time you have the head off

make up a piston stop, and attach it to the cylinder, gently roll the engine to where the piston contacts the stop, and mark the flywheel,  then roll the engine over the other way until it contacts the stop and mark the flywheel again,
finally divide between the two marks and you have TDC perfectly located on your flywheel, permanently mark it so you know for later reference.

bob g

[playdiesel]

Not a problem Marcus,
In giving engine advise here my aim is not to upstage, Lord knows there are people here with more slow speed experiance than me. My aim is to reduce the "mystique" about engines in general. Opening up these slow speed diesels is like going back to engine 101 for me and I enjoy them a lot.
As Mobile Bob said certain cam grinds do not center or overlap exactly at TDC but in all my years I have yet to run into an engine that was not in time when a person splits the cam lobes as described, then put the crank at TDC and in mesh with the nearest tooth. My bottom line here is (and I will shut up about it, LOL)  NEVER will an engine be in time further away than the closest you can possibly mesh the gears to the lobe split/ TDC condition. This has stayed consistant with me through small air cooled engines, cars, tractors, racing, and back to small simple engines again.

[mobile_bob]

i agree with playdiesel on his point, it is far more likely to work than not,

my only point in mentioning the symmetry thing was perhaps that is why they omit the technique in the
instructions, iirc there is at least one of the listeroids that had an intake opening event at something like 10 degree's
btdc and exhaust closing at 20 or 30 atdc,,, i just sort of remember it as it seemed quite strange to me at the time.

it might well be that is the very rare exception to the general rule?  i dunno.

having said that, it would seem quick and easy to at least try "playdiesels" method when faced with a no start issue after
a rebuild.

for all i know, it was an original lister instead of a listeroid that had the asymmetrical overlap, or maybe even a friggin changfa

my memory is not that good, and i usually don't commit to memory things that i figure i can look up later when needed.

bob g

[mbryner]

I get what you both are saying.   At any rate it is a very good tip and should be documented somewhere, even if only on this thread.   

[Geno]

This is from an original Lister manual.

Thanks, Geno

[Crofter]

The difference in valve lash between .017 and .032 on 6/1 intake and exhaust makes some apparent difference in valve opening. My 10/1  calls for .008 on both. Variation in timing gear slack will also shift center of the overlap slightly but I think that method is a keeper especially where you have no specs.

[XYZER]

I always....well after learning use the intake lifter timing to set the correct tooth placement for the idler gear. . If you are really planning, set the cam timing before installing the pushrods and injection pump. This will prevent the spring pressure from rotating the cam when removing the idler gear, and also prevent an accidental piston valve contact. Using the 10deg BTDC has shown me that different cams tend to open at slightly different times due to the crappy assembly and location of the lobes. There were a batch of Listeroids out there that had an issue with a noisy intake and we were all fixing it with intake silencers. I happen to have one and learned it would only run at 8 deg BTDC. IIRC one tooth would alter the event 8 BTDC so it could never be perfectly timed.....causing the intake noise. My other 6/1 has a silent intake and the lifter begins to open at 10 BTDC. Someday ....I will take both cams to a grinder and have the noisy one ground to match the quiet one.         

[mbryner]

Here's my first youtube videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZRLqQSjBSg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RskHiCKKT5I

(Need to find out how to embed a video here....)

[wiebe]

put [jooutube]then the link then [/juotube]  spel it the good way then its ok.

Greetings wiebe

[Apogee]

Marcus,

Glad you got her fixed.

I bet that's a relief!

Nice work.

Regards,

Steve

[cgwymp]

Wow -- look at those lifters spin! You should put a pulley on the exhaust lifter and drive a small alternator with it! ;-)

[sailawayrb]

Looks great and sounds sweet to me!  Glad to see that you will have reliable power backup to your solar power for the southern OR winter months 

Bob B.