Bolt on electric start

[Tom T]

I should be able to turn one up to about 10" I Hace a 10" South Bend and a small mill. Tom T

[wagspe208]

Is there really a market for a bolt on type starter?
The adapter would be easy to make. A flywheel (flexplate) is a dime a dozen. 450 seems pretty stiff to me.
A universal starter bracket would be the issue since everyone has different frames.
Wags

[AdeV]

IMHO - the starter bracket should bolt to (or follow the bolt-down pattern of) the device it's going to run with.

e.g. my system has the ring gear on the alternator; so my starter bracket will bolt to the alternator (actually, its a plate that will sit between the alternator and the adjustable base - but it'll move in/out with the alternator).

If I were mounting to the engine, I'd either find a suitable place to drill/tap in the engine castings, or I'd make a plate that the engine sat on with a welded-on section to hold the starter motor. That way, you can be assured that no matter what else happens, your starter will always be in the right place compared to the ring gear.

I'm hoping mine will be welded up today, in which case I'll show some pictures of it later tonight.

[mbryner]

So, speaking of ring gear on the alternator:  is there any reason why I can't drill directly into the Allmand serpentine pulley and mount a flexplate to it?   The Allmand pulleys are solid, right?  I'd have to install spacers between the pulley and the flexplate because of the sheave but that's not a big deal.  Then I could mount the starter to the slider plate the ST head is bolted to.

Thanks,
Marcus

[AdeV]

So, speaking of ring gear on the alternator:  is there any reason why I can't drill directly into the Allmand serpentine pulley and mount a flexplate to it?   The Allmand pulleys are solid, right?  I'd have to install spacers between the pulley and the flexplate because of the sheave but that's not a big deal.  Then I could mount the starter to the slider plate the ST head is bolted to.

I had to drill my v-belt pulley, so I don't see why yours would be any different. The only tricky bit is getting everything lined up & keeping it registered as you drill the holes.

[Crofter]

Bolt to the generator pulley should be fine. The flexplates usually need some selective shimming anyway to eliminate wobble. Is the gear large enough so the body of the starter can belly up to the gen head or does it have to come in from outside.  A bit of slack in bolt holes can be a benefit and allow you tap the gear around to get even gear mesh, then drill and install several tight dowels for permanent and repeatable alignment. Those thin flex plates shriek like a scalded cat and broadcast any misalignment.

[Tom Reed]

Why not use a pressure plate for the rigidity and extra heft they provide? I've got a spare IH one that perhaps could be welded to the Allmand pulley.

[mobile_bob]

i like doweling this sort of thing to maintain alignment

i use 3/8" dowels, and usually two is more than enough

place them approx 180 degree's apart, by approx i mean don't make it exactly 180
approx is good enough to maintain balance, and by putting them slightly off 180
there is only one way the assy can be reassembled if you ever take it apart rather than
2 ways.

i use two reamers, one that reams for exactly, .3750" and the other for .3745" for the pressfit side
this allows for the pin to be driven into the fix mount and the removable can be slid on.

i also align things as perfect as i can, under a thou' is good enough for most applications, then i spot
weld the assy together to maintain alignment so i can then drill and ream without things moving about.

works very well

i got my reamers from boeing surplus years ago, but i would imagine any machine tool outfit has them too.

they work very well when used in a drill press after drilling to the prescribed undersize hole first.

fwiw
bob g

[mbryner]

Why not use a pressure plate for the rigidity and extra heft they provide? I've got a spare IH one that perhaps could be welded to the Allmand pulley.

OK.   How does that work?  Plate between the flexplate and pulley?  Pardon my ignorance.

Both of you totally lost me on the dowelling.   Maybe after I do some reading on pressure plates I'll understand.

[SteveU.]

Fellas a flex plate is intended to be a springy flexible coupling between the small hub of the engine crank shaft and the large perimeter edges of the transmission torque converter. This forms one end of the heavy torque converter support. IF you were to rigidly mount a flexplate way out at the TQ mounting pad points it would then be relatively rigid. Use a thick heavy rigid manual transmission flywheel instead as it was meant to be only hub mounted and resist a LOT of applied pressure. A hub only mounted flex plate will resonate and sing like a banshee at speed.

AFTER machined surfaced bolted together parts are worked into a needed ideal alignment and or then as a unit weight balanced, Then an alinement fixing locating dowel pin is hole drilled through both as an assembly to fix this alignment. Parts then disassembled and one hole is very slightly reamed over pin size to allow future easy slip fit dissasembly/reassembly with the pin inference driven into the other hole.

Hope this helps.

Regards
SteveU.

[AdeV]

I'm using a flex plate, from an automatic trans system. Like Steve said, it was bolted to the torque converter right at the edges, and to the crank shaft right near the centre.

I have it bolted around half-way across its diameter (probably closer to the centre than the outer edge), and I don't have any problems with undue flex, or high-speed singing. It is noisy when the starter is engaged, but that's only for a few seconds at a time, so I can live with it I reckon.

I hold my flex plate on with 3x M10 bolts. No sign of any problems yet, although I'll check 'em next time I remember to make sure they're still snugged up good & tight. I've not noticed any balance problems either; but, I was quite careful to get the two parts absolutely bob-on concentric before I drilled them, so I wasn't expecting much imbalance. Both pulley & flywheel were balanced independently.

[mbryner]

Hi AdeV,

I just went back and looked your latest video on your "Woohoo" thread.  I like how you mounted the flexplate inboard of the pulley.   My flexplate is larger, so I hope I get enough starting RPM's.

Marcus

[AdeV]

I just went back and looked your latest video on your "Woohoo" thread.  I like how you mounted the flexplate inboard of the pulley.   My flexplate is larger, so I hope I get enough starting RPM's.

Hi Marcus,

I'm glad I mounted it inboard too - it turns out it would be impossible to mount the belts otherwise.... but that's just a design issue around the starter bracket.

The trick, I think, is to mount the plate as close to the starter as you can get. In my case, I couldn't have put it on the other side because the nose of the starter isn't long enough; unless I'd put the starter motor on the other way around, then it all starts to get big and unwieldy - it's already a big old lump, without making it any wider.

If my RPM gauge is to be believed, the setup I have there (12" flex plate, Ford starter (from a 1.8 litre 4-pot diesel IIRC)) will cheerfully turn the engine at >100rpm. That was fast enough to start it on the first compression stroke, even with the air temperature around 0C (32F), whereas trying to crank it by hand was a sure way to burning off the calories, with only white smoke as a reward... That said, I need to re-check my RPM gauge, as I've done a bunch of code changes without re-testing it.