Gen drive belt methods

[TimSR2]

This point cannot be over-labored, lol...thanks bob g. A good application chart for belt drive design is very hard to find on the net. Not everyone  wants to invest in Machinery's Handbook and most of us don't have an engineering degree. I was under the impression that a vee belt drive could not compete with a serp on efficiency, based on popular belief more than anything scientific.  I like the Vee belt drive for it's forgiving qualities; it's ability to handle misalignment, contamination and abuse and neglect. Off tracking is never a concern.  I agree that on smaller diameter pulleys 2 A series belts will have less loss than a single B. Simple hysteresis loss issue, as the B series is so chunky and doesn't like sharp corners.  

I didn't know that FWD serpentine belt info, thanks for that. Serp belt installs on cars use spring loaded tensioners but I think that would not be suitable for single and twin diesel applications. I expect the tensioner would fail very quickly from the violent power pulses. One would have to use a fixed adjustable idler instead of a spring tensioner. Or none at all, like a sliding base arrangement. Personally, having built both I find the tensioning idler easier and more compact.

[mobile_bob]

Gates, Browning, Goodyear etc have drive application catalogs, each also has a section on engineering a drive

it is a basic step by step process, anyone with a calculator and doing simple math can handle,

just follow each step and you cannot go wrong in setting up a properly engineered drive, and you don't have to be
an engineer to do it.

i would strongly suggest picking up one of these catalogs to any diy'er, there is  a world of info that can be applied to all
sorts of stuff.

the info is particularly useful to diagnose problems with commercially made drives, such as lawnmower, where frequent failure
is hard to understand, by rechecking the engineering often times one can determine that the oem underspec'd the drive to pinch
pennies in a tough market. armed with that info one can then upgrade the drive in some cases to something more reliable or failing that reduce the application load or speed so that the oem design will last longer.

the catalogs are free, and can be picked up from just about any brg/drive supply house.

my browning book is always at arms reach!

fwiw

bob g

[wagspe208]

Honestly I am not commtted to either drive. Since I have nothig to start with... no big deal.
No one is running the serpentine belt right on the flywheel without a pulley are they? I just saw the comment about the belt makes on the flywheel and thought??
Wags

[billswan]

Honestly I am not commtted to either drive. Since I have nothig to start with... no big deal.
No one is running the serpentine belt right on the flywheel without a pulley are they? I just saw the comment about the belt makes on the flywheel and thought??
Wags

Wags

Yes many run directly on the flywheel, and yes the paint on my 10/1 has groves worn into it. There is some chirp at times but nothing to get worried about.

6 grove serpentine belt to about 11 inch serpentine pulley on st head.

Billswan

[mobile_bob]

do a search, almost every listeroid user has a serpentine drive belt running right on the smooth outer
surface of the flywheel

works well for most guys, save for some of the big twins which reportedly have some issues with a bit of belt
chirp when a heavy load is thrown onto the generator.

bob g

[Henry W]

If you are running a Listeroid or GM-90 it would be easier to run a serpentine belt setup. On other generator setups that require belt drive I agree with others on properly designed V-belt setups. They work and do not rob to much power. You can buy V-belt pretty much any place at a cheap price. Serpentine belts on the other hand are more expensive, harder to find.

Henry

[Ronmar]

Yep, the serp belt runs right on the flywheel, no grooves.  Mine works great, no chirps squeeks, squeels or problems.  Tracking is a factor of generator position and alignment/square, and the belt dosn't wander.  I just cranked mine up tonight at 25F and started like a champ with only a little injector pre-heat:)  Got a foot of snow here on the ground tonight...

A small serpentine pully can be more difficult to come by.  Many running a 6/1-8/1 and ST generator head were custom made for the application.  You could also probably use a V-belt or two run around the outside of the flywheel without grooves, like the serpentine belts most of us "roidrunners" use.  V belt pullies are a dime a dozzen.  There is a lot of surface contact area on a 24" flywheel driving a 3:1 ratio.  The belt at this size relationship(24" Dia-8" Dia) will contact at close to 50" of flywheel surface.  If you look at say a 6 groove serp belt, it is about 3/4" wide, but in this application laid dirctly on the flywheel, only about 1/3 of that width(top of the micro grooves) is actually in contact with the flywheel.  In contrast, the inner face of a 1/2" V-belt is probably approaching 3/8" wide.

I have seen video somewhere of someone running thery gennie like this, with a pair of V-belts around the flywheel.  It was a long time ago, back when I was researching my generator.  I have also seen people running auto alternators like this for a 12V system in addition to the AC generator.  

[wagspe208]

Hell... so you guys say just throw he serpentine belt around the 24" flywheel and to the gen pulley? Sounds easy enough to me. If it won't slip... I'm all in.
This really works?
Wags

[Henry W]

Yes that is the way I would do it. Another thing that will help is to put a wrap around the slack (non-drive) side of the generator pulley. This will put more belt surface on the pulley and will help prevent slipping.

Henry

[captndiet]

I run a ST-5 generator head off one flywheel of my 6/1 Listeroid and a 24 volt Leece Neville alternator off the other.

I bought the 10 groove 8.25" serpentine pulley for the ST-5 head from George B.

It uses a K081223 Gates 10 groove belt (122 3/4")

The Leece Neville Alt. has a 2 3/4" 10 groove pulley and uses a K070901 Gates 10 groove belt. (90 5/8")

This set-up has been my primary battery charger since June and will power my 180 amp wire welder OK.

This drive system is fool-proof.

Wags are you a racer type?

Jeff

[Ronmar]

Hell... so you guys say just throw he serpentine belt around the 24" flywheel and to the gen pulley? Sounds easy enough to me. If it won't slip... I'm all in.
This really works?
Wags

Yes, it works great.  I recall several running The 6/1- ST-5 combo with a 6 groove serpentine belt.  I run an 8 groove only because I got a deal on the belts...

[sailawayrb]

Hell... so you guys say just throw he serpentine belt around the 24" flywheel and to the gen pulley? Sounds easy enough to me. If it won't slip... I'm all in.
This really works?
Wags

I have a serpentine belt around my 6/1 flywheel driving a ST-5 via Allmand drive that I purchased from Utterpower (George).  I painted the outer flywheel rims with rough rubberized truck bed liner coating.  This setup has never slipped or chirped, and there is zero wear on the truck bed liner coating and serpentine belt.  I suggest locating the belt toward the engine side of flywheel rim to minimize the bending moment that the crankshaft will see.

http://listerenginegallery.com/main.php?g2_itemId=351

Bob