Micro CoGen.

pldc, it's worth a shot. I have the injector out and have been looking for someone who can check it for me but not having much luck. Unfortunately my 'stuff' has expanded to fill all the available space in the garage and I can't get to the engine to work on it. Spring cleaning is right around the corner, I'll have a go at it when the weather turns. I've gotten pretty adept at getting the pump out & back in.

hwew,
About 1850 was what I came up with also. Don't have any idea what the "+980" could mean.

Anyone have a good number for the injector pressure? 1850 psi just doesn't seem right but then again I'm a novice at this.

I think I'm in the same boat on the manual. The one I have shows a much shorter injector nozzle with no flange to pick up the two mounting studs in the head and different internals.
Most of the other stuff looks the same.

Thanks Bob, I'll take your advice.
The only info I can take with me is the spec's page from the manual that came with the engine. The exploded view of the injector in the manual looks nothing like the injector I'm dealing with. Will that be enough for the shop to work with?

Luckily I haven't done anything to the injector other than disassemble & reassemble and handled carefully in the process. Wiped the tip of the nozzle with alcohol & a paper towel but nothing more than that.

I've attached a scan of the page from the manual.
The injector pressure is one odd looking spec. Does it make any sense to you?

Thanks Again.
SteveK

Finally got it to start but still having problems and still working on it being fuel related.
Will start if I set the speed control about half way between 'start' and 'max', runs but shuts down if speed is reduced at all and "backfired" on me several times. That made me nervous, so I'm working toward getting it to start with the speed control set at the start position.

Had the injector hooked up out of the engine and cranked it through by hand. Got a spray of fuel in a cross pattern, each of the four jets of fuel is needle-like for about 6 to 8 inches, then atomizes out another 6 inches or so. I've never heard a distinct click, clink, creak or any such sound from the injector, in or out of the engine. I thought I heard it at one time but think I was hearing what I wanted to be there.
I'm also getting a spray of fuel with every cycle of the pump, so it's spraying twice in a full combustion cycle. I might be showing my ignorance but shouldn't it only inject fuel on one of the four strokes in the cycle?

Also noticed in the bleeding process that compression would push the fuel that was in the injector back out through the inlet port. Thinking there might be some debris in the injector I took the injector apart, cleaned it with alcohol and reassembled.
Marked the position of the pressure adjustment screw and counted turns while removing. Noted that there was little to no tension on the spring that sets the opening pressure.
Put everything back together as is was, hooked it back up outside the engine and cranked it through, still got the fuel injecting on each stroke of the pump. Tried adding tension to the opening pressure adjusting spring one turn at a time until the adjusting screw was almost bottomed out, seemed to make a difference on the amount of fuel coming out of the injector but not in the injecting on each stroke of the pump. Put the adjusting screw back where it was and reinstalled the injector.

Left the return line off the injector and tried starting adding tension to the pressure adjusting spring half a turn at a time. After two full turns on the adjusting screw still wouldn't start so I put everything back where it was initially. Never got any fuel out of the 'return' port. Don't know if that means anything or not.

Tomorrow I'll check and see if compression is still  pushing fuel back through the injector.

I'm going to disassemble the injector again and give it another look. I'll take a couple of pictures and post, the injector I have looks nothing like the exploded view in the manual I have.

Still trying to keep from getting ahead of myself on this, could I still have not bled the fuel system properly?

Any words of wisdom would be welcome.

SteveK

Good news & bad news: Got it to start but definitely not a normal start.

Here's the good news. Bled the fuel system again. Hooked a hand held vacuum pump to the fuel line at the injector and held a vacuum on the line while cranking over it by hand. Took about 5 minutes but started getting a consistent spurt of fuel with each revolution of the flywheel. Hooked up the line and bled again, then listened for the injector to snap which I finally heard. Had to listen for it, wasn't a loud as I was expecting but it was consistent with each revolution.

Now the bad news. Will only start with the speed control set at least 2/3 of the way between the 'start' setting and max rpm. When it lit off I got a little nervous as the rpm seem to be climbing too high too fast so I reduced the speed control toward 'start' and it shut down. Got a lot of whiteish smoke during the whole process and one very loud unusual bang from the engine, sounded like a backfire. (my knowledge of diesel engines is limited to the parts I can associate with turbine & gasoline engines so I may not be using the correct terminology)

Tried this two more times, same result each time. The last time it tried it I let it run a bit longer and got the same results but with several loud bangs. Shut it down after the second one.

Max run time on the last attempt was about 5-7 seconds from the time it lit off and was accelerating.

Several other observations:
1) It continues to occasionally blow out a very black fluid from the exhaust. I attributed it to the accumulation of fuel from multiple failed start attempts. While cleaning it off I noticed it doesn't have distinct fuel odor, has somewhat of an oil smell to it
2) I had the engine oil level topped off to the full mark yesterday. Checked the oil level after doing the sniff test on the gunk coming out of the exhaust and it was down 1/4" from the full mark. Using straight 30 wt oil, the manual specifies HC-11 (summer) or HC-8 (winter) and I've had zero luck figuring what what that means in english. Figured straight 30 wt was a safe alternative at least in the short term.

Could I somehow be getting lubricating oil into the combustion chamber or am I over-thinking the problem again?

I'm going to try draining the fuel again and putting in honest to goodness diesel fuel. I went with this type of engine under the impression it would run on about anything but I'm running out of ideas. And the "backfiring" has me nervous, don't want to do serious damage to the engine while I'm in my (apparently very steep) learning curve.

Having never noticed any such sounds coming from the injector, looks like I haven't bled the air out of the fuel system yet.

Thanks for the help guys, I'll let you know how I make out.

SteveK

Mike,
I'll take the easy one first, compression seems to be real good. Can't crank it through by hand without using the decompression lever.

Now, about rocking the flywheel back & forth to bleed the pump and lines. Do you mean that literally, as in find the spot where the cam actuates the pump and rock the flywheel back & forth?  It will be a long two hours but I'm willing to try anything.

Thanks Ronmar, I'll try and check the injector tomorrow.

The fuel rack moves freely up to the point that it hits the pin in the fuel limiter. This is right at the 'start' position on the speed control knob. What it's doing beyond that is hard to judge since it's the spring on the speed control lever against the spring in the fuel limiter pin.
One thing I haven't noticed while bleeding the fuel lines is any difference in pump output with the speed lever at 'start' and with it at 'max rpm'. Kind of points to what you mentioned about not delivering enough fuel to sustain combustion. I guess I could remove the fuel limiter to allow the rack to move full travel and see if I notice any difference in pump output.

I might be back where I started with no (or low) pump output.

Also, can someone tell me more about the "clink" I should be hearing when the injector fires?
From what I read it should be very noticeable, I don't think I'm hearing it.
Is it something I should be hearing from the injector itself?
If it is not present what do I do to fix it?

Sorry for the long pause, other matters took precedent for a while.
Took the offered advice as much as possible and I made progress. The pump is working. I can use a speed-handle at the priming mechanism to push fuel up to the injector fitting and have bled it there. I still can't get it to light off -but- it tries. If I 'prime the heck out of it' (about 30 turns with the speedhandle) I might get one or two 'coughs' out of it with a couple of pretty significant puffs of whiteish smoke, but then it just cranks and puffs out what appears to be mostly unburned fuel (kind of a cross between mostly fuel mist & light smoke is the best I can describe it).
One time after about 5 start attempts it coughed out a lot of very black unburned fuel, I'm assuming it picked up a bunch of carbon from the exhaust manifold & muffler on it's way out.
I even drained all the fuel out of it, tank, filter, pump, and all the lines up to the injector, and refilled with new kerosene (off-road diesel). Reasonable & relevant - I don't know, but was worth a shot.

So thinking along the lines of it is still a fuel delivery problem I'm down to two things;
1) I just have not yet bled it properly
2) the one suggestion from mobile-bob - "if the injector is not sealing properly, it might be getting some compression forced back up the tip and into the injector, this will be in effect an air bubble.  so maybe pull the injector and check that it is popping off cleanly and at the requisite pressure".

I'm going to try bleeding it a few more times but if that fails, how would I go about checking the injector, just pull the injector and hook the fuel line back up to it out of the engine and crank it?
What exactly am I looking for, just a consistent pulsed spray?
I don't have any way to check pressure, so I'd have to make an assumption on that being good if the pump is working correctly.

I get the feeling that on these engines there isn't much in the way of 'degrees of working correctly' on the individual components. They either work or they don't. Am I way  off base on that?

Thanks to all that replied previously. Look forward to whatever help you all can provide.

SteveK

Took the spring guide out of the delivery valve and tried again. Got fuel up to the injector and bled it there, still won't start, but it tried this time. Making progress. It's got to be air in the fuel delivery line.
When I get it to run I'll put that spring guide back in and see what happens but for now got bigger fish to fry.

Bob,
The piece you're referring to fits inside the spring, I believe to keep the spring from flexing side to side. It's hollow to allow fuel to flow through it.Leaving it out is going to reduce (or eliminate) the spring tension against the piston in the delivery valve
The manual I got with the engine shows a pump like you have, with the control arm attached directly to the plunger, no 'guide' between the delivery valve spring and valve body, and it shows a retaining screw in the forward bottom of the pump housing that is not present on the pump I have. The basic assembly & function is the same, just some detail differences.

What puzzles me is how the pump can work, then seems to 'lose its prime'. If I can get a couple of puffs of smoke that tells me that all the piece parts can, and do, work (mechanically), something is just preventing them from doing so. If I haven't bled it thoroughly do you think the air remaining is somehow working its way back to the pump and keeping it from working properly?

Well, finally got some to mess with it. Checked for static flow through the pump, that checked out fine, so out came the pump again. Totally disassembled it, used scotch-brite on the delivery valve base and the face of the barrel body. Couldn't find any imperfections at all on either piece, couldn't feel anything and ran a tissue across both faces to see if it would pick up a nick or burr. Cleaned everything with alcohol and reassembled with a very light coat of straight 30wt non detergent oil just to let everything slide properly till I got it back in the engine. Took a picture of everything laid out after disassembly (pic attached or inserted, not sure how this works but will find out shortly), this is the way it went back together.
Cranked it over by hand and got fuel! Checked the delivery line to the injector for obstruction once again, installed and bled at the injector. Never got an actual "flow" but eventually got a good amount of fuel and no noticeable air.
Cranked it up using the starter, got a couple of puffs of whitish smoke then nothing.

Loosened the line at pump and cranked it over, no fuel again. Cranked by hand and with the starter, no output from the pump.

I'm thinking I'm not getting all the air out of the line to the injector so that's what I'm going to try now.   

OK, Let me answer a few of the replies sent. Once again, thanks to all that took the time to help me out.

Reply 3 - Thob - The only way I see to adjust the lift from the cam is to remove some of the shims at the pump mounting flange. Not sure I'm ready to go there just yet. That's messing with things a bit beyond my comprehension at this time. That has other ramifications doesn't it?

Reply 4 - playdiesel - 1) This looks like a good place to start. For all I know with, the multitude of variations on the S195 theme out there (I'm not even sure exactly who made the engine I have) there could be something different with the way the rack is initially aligned or something, who knows? If I can get fuel through the pump statically that will tell me something. 2) Positive I got the ball aligned with the slot in the governor arm. I know this because in my quest for the answer to "What if I. . . " I purposely misaligned  the ball on the rack outside the slot in the fork and had one hell of a time getting the pump back out afterwards. So the answer to "What if I do that on purpose? is - - "don't do that."

Reply 5 - hwew - Yes , engine manufactured in 2007, bought in 2007, moved form one storage bin to another for 5 years. Got real serious about it now that we have our own home AND went through our first 3 day power outage in July. Found out that we did just fine with a small borrowed generator for keeping the fridge & freezer cold and a light on in the evening BUT found out real quick that our well pump is 220v and water is real important. Didn't have to lug too many 5 gallon buckets of water up from the creek to realize I liked having a toilet that works without my intervention. Hence my current dilemma.

Reply 6 - Ronmar - Have the priming 'actuator' stowed (the 'flat' facing the roller on the pump) . I did try using it to move fuel through the pump but no joy.

Reply 10 - moblie bob - I've done this BUT with the high pressure line removed. Would that make a difference? When I couldn't get fuel at the injector I just left it off since I had the pump in and out half a dozen times. Didn't think the fittings were meant for a whole lot of 'take it off & put it back on' cycles. Like I said in my original post, I'm not getting anything out of the pump at this point, not even spitting any fuel.

Reply 11 - rcavictim - Something I noticed along the lines of the max fuel adjustment - there's not very much 'throw' on the governor arm from the "start/idle" position to the max fuel stop as it is currently set. I mean very little, with the pump removed the fork on the governor arm is barely out of sight from the notch in the case where the ball on the rack goes in to mate up with the fork in the governor arm. Lot of throw the other way, toward 'fuel cut off'. Don't know if this is normal or not. haven't messed with that adjustment.

Reply 12 - mobile bob - I think this is where I'm going to end up when all is said & done. When I have the fuel delivery valve out to check for static flow through the pump (playdiesel's suggestion) I'll double check everything in there for everything you mentioned. I'm real sure I got it back together correctly, it kind of all fell out and scattered when I removed it from the pump (disassembled on the workbench on clean dry paper towels). Looking at what it does and referencing some pictures I found on-line I put it back together the way I thought it ought to be. I'll post a picture of it laid out for all to look at, I might not be a smart as I think I am, that's happened before :-). Didn't realize that assembly was so susceptible to so many 'little' things. Did keep it clean while reassembling so there shouldn't be an chunks in there but there's other things to look for.
Have checked the pressure line from the pump to the injector. Ran a piece of safety wire through it just to make sure it wasn't blocked. Do appreciate the statement about ". . . the pressures involved ought to rupture the line." Not used to thinking about that as something to watch out for.  Goes back to hwew's mention of working with high pressure fluids. Been down that road, mostly learning from others mistakes (lucky for me).

Will hopefully get a chance to play with it this weekend. I'll let you all know how I make out.
Thanks again.

Steve K

All, thanks for all the input. Definitely gave me some things to look at  when I get a chance to spend some time on it, probably over the weekend. Short of time right now, will try and respond to some of the replies later in the week.

Steve K

Thanks for replying veggie. Yes, there's good flow to the pump, gushes out when the banjo fitting at the pump is loosened.