Micro CoGen.

Quote from: hwew on February 17, 2012, 04:41:41 AM
David,
It is good asking questions. Yes Generator sales D1005 BG generator is ok. Other generator manufactures are using a generator heads that an engine is not capable to operate at full output. The Mecc-Alte NPE 32-B/4 head should have a long life running a 6-7 KW load.

The NPE 32-B/4  overload ratings are as follows:
300% for 20 seconds
50% for 2 minutes
10% for 1 hour every 6 hours of operation.

Oh, I just realized something. I think the 9,875 watt rating is the max rating of the generator head, not the capable output of genset. Now the rating posted in the ad makes sense.

Another thing I found that is false on the ad. The D1005 BG engine does not have cast iron sleeves. But, these engines have a long life expectency, and they can be re-bored if needed.

Henry

Hi Henry,
Thanks for your help with this ... much appreciated

david

Quote from: hwew on February 16, 2012, 07:24:32 PM
Hi David,
I always go for a generator head that is larger than the engine is capable of running. Most generator heads are most effeciant below the max rating. The way to protect the engine from overloading is the proper size breaker. And with the D1005BG engine turning a gen head that is fused to 30 amps will protect from overloading.

I would think at that price it would have engine management protection so if the engine starts loosing RPM's the electricity will be disconnected to protect the generator head. If it does not come with that protection I would make sure it is put on.

Henry

Hi Henry,
thanks for taking the time to explain ... although I'm a little confused.
Are you saying that the Generator sales D1005 BG generator is OK ... since the gen end is larger than the engine is capable of, but that it should only be used at a max of 6 - 7 KW? And in order to protect the engine from carrying a larger load, an engine control should limit the load to a max of 30 A?
I'll ask Generator Sales about engine control (30 A).

david

just thinking ... I guess from a sales point of view it makes the unit more attractive to buyers by saying it can handle a larger load (more is better).
But realistically, it should only be used for a max 6-7 KW load. If run correctly (using your advice) maybe it is a decent matched unit?

Quote from: mbryner on February 16, 2012, 07:20:43 PM
Guidelines:

Gen heads do best when not heavily loaded -- they run cooler.  Try to keep it around 50%.  A gen head that is oversized is not really less efficient when lightly loaded, but you pay more for it up-front.  

OTOH, a diesel generator has max efficiency when loaded down, i.e. running at 70%+.   You'll get less glazing of the cylinder wall, less coking, and an overall cleaner burn.

Rule of thumb:  1 hp of engine is about 500 watt of electrical output.

Thanks for the info mbryner
david

I'm looking at an APC UTS that has adaptive load management, since the main purpose will be emergency backup power. With the load management feature it should be possible to keep the engine running at a higher load (instead of just lights and small loads ... and when the well pump isn't being powered). Load shedding to protect the generator from overloading and loads kept in queue to keep the engine loaded. Sounds like a good idea anyway.
For some reason the 10 circuit model isn't available in Canada yet, not sure why.

Quote from: hwew on February 16, 2012, 01:54:47 PM

Quote from: davidssfx on February 15, 2012, 05:48:59 PM
Hi,
Anyone bought a generator from generator sales (Central Maine Diesel)?
Just looking for some feedback:
1. about the company
2. gen set ... Kubota D1005 BG / Mecc-Alte NPE 32-B/4

thanks
david

Hi David,

I looked at the genset and I would have to say that it is overrated.

9,875 watts from a D1005BG running at 1800 rpm is way overloaded. I would not even attempt to run mine close to that. Where do people come up with these numbers?

Even the continuous rating of 8,750 watts is high.

It is safe to say that 6500 - 7000 watts max is a good continous rating for that engine to last.

Henry

Thanks for the comments guys,

Also, Henry ...
Thanks for your evaluation of the gen set. I was wondering if this unit was over-loaded or if another gen set with the same engine was under-loaded.
There is a dealer in Western Canada that has a unit with a D1005 BG, and this is what they have it rated as ...
"6.5 kilowatts prime power output and 7.0 kilowatts intermittent or standby power output".

I don't know enough about generators to properly match the engine with the correct sized gen end, but there is quite a difference between the "Generator sales" rating compared with what you've said, as well as, the other gen set in Western Canada.
The D1005 BG is rated at ... Output, inter. 9.8 kWm (13.1 HP), Output, cont. 8.7 kWm (11.7 HP) ... but I don't know how this info relates to sizing the gen end?

What interested me in the Generator Sales unit is the engine and the price. Their unit is $5000 plus $500 shipping (total 5500), while the Western Canada unit (same engine) is $6900. A similar kW (6-7) unit in Alberta with a Yanmar mini max is $7100 plus $300 shipping.
So the $5000 unit is something to consider, but not if it is a poor engine/gen end match.
Guess the trick is finding a D1005 BG gen set with the correct sized gen end for $5000

Do you think the Mecc-Alte NPE 32 A/4 is a good match with the D1005 BG?
The other company matches it with a Newage/Stamford PI044D (Standard)

thanks again
david

Hi,
I was searching the internet for truck APU's to try and get a better idea of how various manufacturers design their systems. I bumped into this train version, which I thought was interesting because it is able to capture both coolant and exhaust heat from these small engines.

linked here:

http://www.hotstart.com/assets/Spec-Sheets/APU-master-spec-sheet.pdf

Hi,
Anyone bought a generator from generator sales (Central Maine Diesel)?
Just looking for some feedback:
1. about the company
2. gen set ... Kubota D1005 BG / Mecc-Alte NPE 32-B/4

thanks
david

Quote from: hwew on February 04, 2012, 01:36:51 PM
Hi David,

A question I have is how many watts do you need and what will you be using it for?

Henry

Hi Henry,
Thanks for your info about Next Gen.
Genset is for power failure backup. I realize this is an expensive way to have backup power, but I'm interested in mCHP ... and it should be possible to easily capture the engine coolant heat for space heating and or DHW.
I have an electric boiler system in our home, so it would be nice to be able to use the engine waste heat while the generator is running (producing electricity).
Concerning watts needed ... I would like to take advantage of adaptive load management (load shedding) technology in order to size the generator as small as possible, but still be able to comfortably power the most demanding load (which is the half HP well pump) ... as well as have other basic household loads.
Therefore I have reasoned that these (and probably more) factors should be considered:

1. low fuel consumption
2. liquid cooled
3. able to start and run highest demand load (well pump)
4. A) method of heat transfer to space heating, probably via an indirect water tank connected in series with primary circuit of heating system.
Haven't decided on the best method yet, since there are several variables to consider ... like: if a plate heat exchanger/circ pump/header tank/etc is needed in a secondary circuit for when heat transfer from the engine is not required (during summer or if heat in indirect tank reaches a high temp limit).
B) or have a single heating convector inside (with fan) that uses heat from the engine coolant circuit (similar to the truck APU's)
5. adaptive load management system should be able to keep loads on standby when higher priority loads are required ... as well as keeping a lower priority load active when generator is under loaded (like a DHW element or electric baseboard heater).
6. lowest possible cost ... therefore two cylinder instead of three
7. Tier 4 emission standard
8. as you've mentioned: parts availability
9. reliable long term product

I think pleasure boats and truck APU's are using similar sized Gensets for space heating /DHW (using engine coolant waste heat), ... it's just a matter of seeing if a simple and safe method for residential power backup and space heating options are workable.

thanks
david

Quote from: XYZER on February 04, 2012, 11:25:26 AM
David,
What is your location? Shipping is definatly a consideration.
David

Hi,
West Coast Canada ... so shipping destination could either be at Vancouver or somewhere just across the border.

Both above mentioned companies said they would ship for around $300.00

Hi,
I came across this forum a few days ago ... and just wanted to say thanks for making all this info available

david

Hi,
I'm looking at several 2 cylinder diesel (liquid cooled) generators ... and am wondering what the pros and cons are of each.
Please post your opinions, thanks.

1.Perkins 402D-05G
http://www.generatorsales.com/order/Perkins-6-kW-Diesel-Generator.asp?page=P6125
Approx. cost: $4500.00

2.Kubota Z482-E3B
UCI 2-5.5
http://www.nextgenerationpower.com/Info/Support/NextGenFlyer.pdf
Approx. cost: $5200.00

3. Yanmar 2TNV70
I can't find a similar generator pre-made with this engine, but am still interested how it compares with the other two.

Hi mr.fixit,
Thanks for posting info about your Yanmar 2TNV70 ... very interesting.
I've been looking a several 2 cylinder engine generators, but can't find any pre-built units with this engine.

Please post any more information about your build.

Thanks
david