Micro CoGen.

seeing how you have two alternators running while the engine is running, why not drive a small bosch auxiliary heater pump?

they move enough water to cool at least 15hp, maybe more

you can simply pump water into the bottom drain on the cylinder block and return it out the top via the t/stat, with a small hole in
it of course.

those little bosch pumps are about as bullet proof as anything and allow the engine to drive a heavier load without overheating than is possible
with siphon cooling in my experience.  the system can then have a 7lb radiator cap and an overflow bottle just like a real engine.

using a pump allows more freedom in radiator/exchanger placement as well.

fwiw
bob g

as far as i am concerned the laws of physic's may as well be carved by God out of unobtanium, for they stand up to all scrutiny
whether one likes it or not.

if an engineer states that a hummingbird cannot fly, i would suggest he go back and take a better look at how the critter is doing it, and yes
he will find it does so without breaking any laws of physics.

laws are not suggestions, laws are not rule's, either of which might change due to circumstances.

bob g

with all due respect, why go through all the herculean efforts to cure a problem, rather than just take it down
and do it right?

i can understand if it is an engine that must be online continuously, or is very expensive, or there are no parts, or it is
in some horrible access, but...

a listeroid?  really?

how long does it take to remove a head, remove a side cover, disconnect the lower end of the conrod, and pull
the piston out of the hole...

then stuff the lower end with a clean towel, take a bead hone to the cylinder, clean the bore with fresh oil and clean white paper
towels until there is no sign of gray color, clean the piston, and rings if you plan to reuse them, or replace them (replacement is strongly
recommended if available) and put the engine back together.

then break it in right, and put it back to work?

whats that take, a half day?  and you have a clean engine that you know will do the job it was intended to do?

fwiw

once an engine is glazed, it generally is not going to get better with the addition of any substance, stuck rings being another matter entirely.
adding load to try and get it to deglaze itself isn't likely going to do any good, and if it does you had best go buy a lottery ticket quick!  the odds are probably higher winning the lottery than getting a glazed engine to run like it should.

bob g

thanks for the link, interesting read.

bob g

its hard to beat the balmar products, they are about as good as it gets in my opinion.

however the sterling, amplepower, xantrex units are also very good.

bob g

that bon ami story make me feel like i have athelete foot on my tongue!
you know fingernails on the blackboard sort of thing!

while i am sure some body used it and it did what is reported, i am equally positive that the long term effects were never reported.

bon ami is an abrasive, and while it might well scrub out the glazing on the cylinder, it will also collect in the ring grooves and wear them
out along with the rings, get past them and down into the oil where accelerated wear to brgs and other hard parts will result.

short answer, i would never do it or advise anyone to try it on any engine they cared about.

the spencer ash story, has its problems too in my opinion.

while there are oils out there that will make ash when burnt, many such have been phased out with the advent of cat converters and O2 sensers, and are certainly nearly gone from diesel oils today.

the only correct method of dealing with a glazed cylinder is to tear it down, hone it and replace the rings.

anything else is going to compromise the rest of the engine, sooner than later in my opinion.

bob g

balmar mc612 for 12volt systems, the mc624 for 24volt systems
xantrex also markets similar units, likely rebranded balmar units
sterling makes some interesting units as well
heart interface makes a couple too
Hehr also makes one or two
ample power has some good ones too

all will do what you want and most offer temp sensor options for temp compensation, and also for alternator protection.

bob g

1hp to 25amps, comes from experience with small gas engines and delco car alernators

its a rough rule of thumb, and of course only relates to 12volt nominal systems.

diesel engines, and higher efficiency alternators seem to do a bit better in my experience (1hp will make 30amps)  this at 12volts nominal

you can do better with higher voltage systems, but likely the same ratio if you use off the shelf offerings from most alternator builders
that have to make the necessary compromises in efficiency in order to have a unit that will charge at both idle and highway speeds.

bob g

apart from concerns with available power and generator capacity, if you have excess capability you could certainly
just switch on the inverter to provide power to some scheduled load to use any extra capacity and keep the charge rate
to the batteries under the max recommended .

bob g

when it comes to high output alternators, one has to sort out exactly what his end needs/goals are...

if you want to weld with the alternator?

if you want an intermittent power source?

if you want a continuous duty unit?

if you are more concerned with efficiency rather that brute output?

all sorts of considerations, and there will always be compromises that must be made.

no alternator is going to do all things for every application, or fill every need.

certainly not in the price point that the typical diy'er is going to want to pay, nasa maybe, but the rest of us?  nah!

bob g

"And yes the engine does sound like a barrel 1/2 full of hammers rolling down a hill."

such sweet music!  huh?



bob g

Lloyd

whats the deal with the compounding of the water pumps?  higher pressure?

also how much are those water pumps, they look almost like the bosch auxiliary heater pumps i am so fond of.

bob g

at see level that engine can make all of 7.5kwatt if you lose the radiator, add an electric w/pump, a real radiator, t stat, pressure cap
and run it at 1800rpm,,, that driving an st7.5

mine will do a touch over 8kwatts electrical with just a bit of gray smoke, not black.

bob g

the pump setting procedure is well covered in the service manual, likely the techs have never repurposed a refer to a genset use
or visa versa, most of the guys that work are younger than these engine's and have no clue about setting them up.

i would think that you could make the little fixture/jig and get it setup right.

or take it to an injection pump shop and the pump guy will know how to set it up like you need it, just take the manual with you
to show him what is needed just in case he is not familiar with it.

bob g

my s195 which is somewhat smaller in displacement than your engine, however i bet it would work just as well...

i installed a bosch auxiliary water heater pump from a VW, (audi, porshe, mercedes also use the same pump)

i removed the hopper cooling system, installed a block off plate, and installed a tstat housing from a small honda
4 banger because it was handy/cheap and had all the needed ports for a bypass and a temp sender.

also installed a small nissan sentra radiator with the thermostatically controlled electric fan

use a 7 lb rad cap, however the changfa can handle a 10lb cap no problem.

water flow is as follows

from the lower hose of the radiator which i capped the radiator has another 1/2" water port in the side of the lower hose pipe
from that 1/2 inch port i feed the bosch pump, the pump feeds water to the drain port on the lower part of the cylinder block
simply remove the petcock and install a 45 street elbow and a hose barb (this will clear the flywheel)..

i drilled an eighth inch bypass hole in the T state plate so that some of the pump pressure can bleed through, this does two things
it bleeds out all air trapped, it lowers the head pressure seen by the pump, and i guess one more thing it presents ever warmer water to
the T stat bulb assuring proper function.

when the stat opens it allows water to flow back to the radiator where the process repeats of course.

the Tstat is a 195 degree F unit, the fan temp switch which is mounted in the bottom of the radiator allows the fan to come on at around 210 degree's F and shut off at around 205 degree's F.   therefore the Tstat does not normally cycle after the engine is up to full operating temp, it simply stay  open and the fan controls the engine temp as it should.

this system works to 8kwe output, and i have no doubt the pump could cover twice this amount of load, which should be ample for your engine.

the pump draws something around 50 watts if i recall, not much really.

i have it set to run any time the engine is running, and when under micro controller control it will be started before the engine, and continue to run after the engine is shut down until the engine drops below the 205 degree F temp threshold of the fan stat, (actually  i will program it to run another couple minutes after the fan stops to assure that the heat soak is covered and the fan can dissipate the heat if need be.

these are neat little pumps, very robust and seem to run forever.

i got 3 or 4 from a pic a part yard out in tacoma for about 7 bucks each, the one i use seeped a bit at the shaft seal for about an hour, until it had flushed out all the stop leak the old car had it in for a leaky radiator or some other issue.

personally i would not suggest or use a belt driven pump for cooling these engine's, the pump would need to be quite small and likely dear in price compared to even a new bosch electric pump.  i don't like any more belt parasitic loads than necessary, and i like the ability to continue the pump after the engine has been shut down if need be (something a belt drive can't do generally).

lastly if i recall correctly, the bosch pump will move about 4 or 5 gallons per minute at zero head, there is really no way an engine of less than
probably 30hp (and likely more) can make more hot water than can be removed at that flow rate.

a half inch supply line from the pump to the engine might seem too small, however consider that cummins with their reverse flow/low flow system could adequately cool a 14 liter 350hp engine in a class 8 truck using 1 inch upper and lower hoses and a much small pump than they
formerly used.  i don't remember for sure, but i don't think that pump moved much over 25 gallons per minute at full throttle.

bob g