We currently have 10kw of Solar on our home a 1.8kw wind turbine and two solar air heaters. We are planning to put another 10kw of solar (PV) and another 80 sq/ft hot air heater. If any one is interested I can post some pics, if I can figure out how.
Carl
Carl: pictures would be cool .what kind of solar air heaters do you have....
Both solar air heaters are home built to fit the house. One is about 54 sq/ft the other is 125 sq/ft. They produce about 30 of our heat in the winter. Solar heater number 3 is in the planning stages and it will be 80 sq/ft.
I will upload some pics when I get a chance.
Carl
10KW!! man that cost some jack!
Quote from: WGB on September 21, 2009, 07:12:27 PM
10KW!! man that cost some jack!
Yes it does cost, but the maintenance is almost zero with the exception of hosing it off if there is a long drought maybe. I have a small solar backup system and haven't touched it since installation.
Something I thought I would mention about new solar installations, especially large expensive ones. If you are considering a new roof mounted solar system, consider the life left in your roof. If you only have 5 or 10 years left in your roof, you might want to replace the section where your 25 year panels will be mounted. It really sucks to have to remove them to fix a leaky roof.
Here is a picture of my Solar PV's, Solar hot air and wind turbine.
Carl
You have a 10Kw PV system AND a windmill? Are you on or off-grid? If on-grid, do you have net metering? I guess what I'm getting around to asking is, why such a big system?
BTW, I'm off-grid with 680w of PV. I also have an Air-X 400w windmill and a 200w homebuilt unit. Neither of the windmills is currently installed since I get all the power I need with only the PV. I do have generator(s) backup for those emergencies and when I'm running high draw power tools.
robbie
I am grid connected and we have net metering as well as the ability to generate renewable energy certificates which we can sell back to the utilities so that they can meet their commitment to the state for the "generation of renewable energy"
The system is so large because we have a pretty large house and we use an air source heat pump as our primary heat in winter and central air in the summer.
We may be adding another 10kw of solar so that we can generate more renewable energy credits. The current selling price in New Jersey for 1 renewable energy credit is around 670 dollars and our 10kw system generated 13 certificates last year 13@ 670 each = 8710 and offset about 2000 dollars of electricity cost 13,000khw @ .155 per kwh = 2015 dollars.
Carl
It would take a while for the system to pay for itself, even with the credits, but that's not why people install solar when they're tied to the grid, is it? :)
It took less than 3 years to get paid back for the install. The state subsidized the install to the tune of 60% which means my out of pocket for the 10 kw was less than 30,000 dollars, we are realizing a 10,000 dollar yearly return on our investment. After three years the system had paid for itself ( we installed in late 2004)
We are now in the permitting process to install another 10kw system (ground mount array) and hope to have in done by the end of the year.
Carl
Quote from: Jens on September 24, 2009, 09:44:55 AM
<sigh> must be nice to have a government that supports alternative energy.
Up here in the great white north, the government kicks in a tiny tiny token amount and as far as I know there is no trade in carbon offset credits.
Jens
You guys are in the "pound seats"!
In my neck of the woods, ZA, the power utility, (Government has 100% shares) subsidized CFL lights to the extend of about 10%.
The power utility did so well financially since "independence day", they forgot to upgrade and maintain the national grid while the fat cats were overseas on holiday with their new found wealth.
Now the money is gone and the grid failed, "forcing" them to increase the costs of electricity down to the consumers at a rate of about 100% over the last 18 months!
We had country wide power failures a while back and were told by our Minister of "Sparky" to go to bed earlier! ( If I recall correctly, this was just after our Minister of "AIDS" told us to eat carrots)
Obviously this great survival tips were relayed to the public via TV transmissions, because ours works with petrol/paraffin ;D
All this while they were still supplying our neighboring countries like Zim with low-cost electricity, so that Robert's army can see where they are shooting at night! :-\
At least the "over-rated" (IMHO) 2010 Soccer World Cup stadiums would have power next year, as they recently realized that they better double up on the standby generators at each venue before making their name @$$!
Hopefully they would have money leftover for fuel. ;)
I'm way of topic now... ::) but they did/do speak a lot of "wind"
Quote from: Jens on September 24, 2009, 11:05:29 PM
What are "pound seats" ?????
Jens
Hi Jens, I was a bit grumpy this mornin', sorry :-[
I meant you guys are much better off than me if I told you what its like over here. Tong in the cheek, sort of ;)
Pound Seats i.e. $$$ Seats, better of exec.
dubbleUJay
As someone else wrote, I wish our government (USA) would subsidize to that extent. I did manage to get some tax rebates on my solar install (which ended up being pretty nice), but not to your tune. It would take 20 years or so to get payback on your type of system here.
I can't netmeter because of my location (3 miles form power lines), but have friends who do. They get the low end of the wholesale price of electricity. I think that's in the neighborhood of 6 cents per kW
robbie
Sounds like doubleuJay and I are in a similar boat. Being in the Bahamas, and BEC (Bahamas Electricity Corp) being a government entity, we are actually fined US$ 3000.00 for having a grid tied system. Obviously having a solar system with the capacity to run say, a 4 ton A/c unit, is completely uneconomical. They only just removed the custom duties of 100% (luxury items) on solar panels a year or 2 ago.
It is a stupid system here... they actually broke ground a month ago to install a 50MW bunker C power station in my area. We are currently powered by a 28MW Diesel plant, and do to ministers giving jobs to their buddies, this system... is supposedly undersized now with the new growth. We are in the worst tourist slump since the late 80's with most every motel hotel type place empty... yet they say they dont have the power to run us now. 6 generators out of 12 running, but its cheaper to build a new plant and the infrastructure for 105million instead of repairing the 6 generators? We all know the reason is to create jobs for the select few to win the next election.
Corruption at its finist.
Rom
Sure. Governments hate competition. Declare your independence and see what happens. They'll have a regulary hissy fit.
Last time it was tried here was in 1861, which precipitated the War of Northern Aggression. I have to call it that 'cause Bill Rogers might be reading this.
Quinn
Bill Rogers isn't the one you need to worry about!
Magic Jack would be the one i would be watchin over my shoulder for!
i have seen his cannon, both of em
and i am sure i can't run fast enough
bob g
The system doesnt work that way here... For example... maybe 6 years ago, our workforce for Batelco ( Bahamas Telecomunications Corp-Governenment Owned Corp) went on "strike"... The company's offical press realease was that all the company's vechicles broke down, at the same time, and cause a terrible traffic jam during a good time in the tourist season. Only person fired during this company wide strike, was a lady of lighter coloured skin, in my neibourhood, of mostly British loyalists, of lighter skin. We are not on the right side of the system to attack it dead on unfourtunatly.
ROM, you are definitely correct, we are a'sailing the same boat by the sounds of it!
The thing is, the people in power are "arrogantly ignorant" and the rest of the world doesn't have a clue of what are really happening over here, except what they read/see in their news, which is usually biased towards the poor previously disadvantaged government. (I just call it propaganda, totally my own opinion)
The one good thing I can see coming out of the 2010 Soccer World Cup, is that people might see what are really going on, this is if they can see through all the smoke and mirrors that will be presented!
Our power grid problems started with the failure of one of the two reactors at our only nuclear facility. All of a sudden the demand was bigger than the supply, power was relayed from other areas and overloads occurred. Then the Right/Left or what ever politic opposition "wing" was blamed for sabotage by dropping a nut into one of the reactors!
It later surfaced that the fat cats "forgot" to maintain the grid. We had substations blown up from overloading from bypassed trip switches, main supply lines "blown over by the wind" ( they forgot to tell us that the pylon's legs were sawn off for scrap metal a few months earlier) exec, exec ,exec.
Its one thing to have no infrastructure and working towards bettering it, but a completely different kettle of fish if you had it, but let it deteriorate through corruption and then still have to audacity to blame someone else!
Needless to say, the backup generator business made a killing! The repair workshops as well, because most of the sets sold were of the JC verity, Jap-Crapp Pty (Ltd) ;) Not that all Jap stuff is crapp, we just got the stuff the are not allowed to use over there. (We get great used diesel engines for trade-ins over here, apparently when they've done 60,000km or so, they are no longer allowed in some Eastern Countries and they are about half the price.)
The "NUT hit the fan" so quick, no one had a chance to do some homework and just went out and bought the cheapest 3 or 5 KVA petrol driven gen-set and ran it for two days continuously out the box!
Electrical "Experts" popped out of the woodwork everywhere.
In our townships, illegal connections must make up for about 80% of the connected households. They were promised housing, electricity and running water by the current government for voting purposes and the deadline was a few years ago!
The poor BEE utility workers cannot go in and disconnect them as they will probably be killed on the job or they and their family tonight, as they are mainly their neighbors through Black Economic Empowerment.
An ignorant government imposed catch 22 situation.
We should have listened to our Minister of "Lights Out" and go to bed early! ;D
Someone once said: "Don't underestimate the knowledge and integrity of the common people, Sire!" (His last word BTW)
PS-This thread should probably be taken to the "ranting" section by now! ::) Yes, I know, mainly because of me, sorry :(
mobile_bob,
I have to confess my ignorance, who is magic jack and his cannon? A quick google didn't give me any useful info
who is "Magic Jack"?
he is a fellow board member and one of the most interesting gentlemen i have ever had the pleasure to meet.
he is an accomplished machinist, gunmaker, cannon builder, architect/builder, 6/1 owning, snake killin/gator wrestling,
writer, geologist, historian, amongst other things and a great guy to get to know.
the guy you want on your side of the fence when the shtf!
i suspect we will be hearing more out of him on this forum as the weather gets colder and he has to come indoors
for the winter.
:)
bob g
I second what Bob says. Jack's a most interesting gentleman. When you're in the room with him, you find yourself sitting down, shutting up and making like a sponge. I've met only a couple of people like him.
Here's Jack: http://www.utterpower.com/jack_belk.htm (http://www.utterpower.com/jack_belk.htm)
Quinn
oh I see, wasn't he on the other forum as "hotater"?
that would be the man
admin
I just checked the member list and I believe he's on here Magic Jack
I just thought I would update the group on our current Photovoltaic project. In addition to the 9.996kw array we currently have on our home, we are adding an additional 11.2kw tiltabale ground mount array in our back yard. All of the state and local approvals and permits have been approved. The rough in electrical and conduit out to the array has been inspected and approved, The 24"x72" footing have been bored (7 in all) and approved. Delivery of the panels and racking to arrive today from the West Coast.
I hope to have the uprights in place this weekend and pour the concrete early next week. I will take some pictures as soon as something more exciting than just big holes in the back yard are there to photograph.
Carl
Carl, is your system grid tied or battery based?
grid tied
I would be very interested to see the numbers once the project is complete.
i.e. - initial cost for each piece minus any subsidies, then the ROI.
Would be very interesting and encouraging to others I would guess.
If you'd be willing to share...
Looking forward to pics!
Thanks,
Steve
Hi Carlb,
Nice to see you're expanding your most enviable system. Did you take your website down or is that my crumbling memory? I too agree that a spreadsheet of your projects would be nice but then I'm not the one "grid-tied" to a computer for half a day.
I got a preliminary property location check last week from the local power company. They just had to raise prices to 36 cents a KWH (Hawaii Electrical Light Company Co. (HELCO) – or as some call it – The company from Heck. Being located in a farming district rendered us "No problem" for a grid tie. The scary thing is that you put the system in and then the power company approves it based on county permits and well established – accepted engineering standards.
When I saw the heading "Wind and Solar projects" I hoped someone would have knowledge of an inverter that would work with solar during the hours of light and generator or wind during the hours of darkness. So??? Does anyone have avenues of investigation?
Casey
I never had a website running so I guess you are just getting old like the rest of us. I will be taking pictures as I go along with this project and post them when time permits. I am trying to get this project done before the end of the year and time is running out fast. The foundation holes are dug and all of the equipment in now on site except for the inverters. Once I set the posts in concrete the actual assembly of the array should only take two to three days. All of the wiring from the sub panel to the array is already complete. I would look into Outback or Xrantax inverters for the ability to do what you want. You will still probably need a small battery bank to make the inverters happy
Carl.
Just in case you didn't know. Photos are very easy to post on this site. See that "+ Additional Options..." down there on the left of this edit page? Just click and do a couple of simple steps and there's your photo.
Casey
Well the new 11.2kw solar array is completed and online. You can see from the photo the new array with the wind turbine and the 10kw array on the roof of the house in the background.
Quote from: Carlb on January 02, 2010, 06:27:54 AM
Well the new 11.2kw solar array is completed and online. You can see from the photo the new array with the wind turbine and the 10kw array on the roof of the house in the background.
Carl,
Your efforts are turning more of the planet green than the technical specs alone might indicate. Green with envy! Way to go Bro!
Yeah, what rcavictim said!
RON
Thanks guys, it was a lot of work, and with the exception of the post setting I did all the work myself. It took me almost a month to get it together and it was exceptionally cold here for December, most days in the mid to upper 20's F. and high winds.
Carl
Congrats! That is great... I'd love to have that system('s)
I am soooo jealous! Do you have any pict's of the inverters and other hardware?
Rob
Here is a picture of the array from the back. If you look near the middle of the array you will see two SMA 5000 inverters back to back. There is really not much else in the way of hardware but if anyone is interested in installing a tiltable array i would strongly recommend the TTI adjustable tilt ground mount mounting system. This array is 10' tall and 92' wide and I can adjust the tilt from 0 degrees to 40 degrees by myself. The entire array tilts at one time on the seven posts as seen from the back.
carl
Hi Carl,
Did you ever give us a breakdown of your actual costs on this latest addition to Carl's New Jersey Power Center? Do you have a projected break-even date? And for those of use that just paid $0.34 per KWH; what do folks in NJ pay per KWH?
Casey
Just curious Casey. Where do you live?
I just looked over my last 12 months and my rate (including fees and taxes) varied from a low of $.07 to a high of $.16/KWH with the most recent being $.08. Oklahoma.
Might be interesting to start an entirely separate thread just comparing energy usage and price...
chris
Quote from: LowGear on January 03, 2010, 05:31:52 PM
Hi Carl,
Did you ever give us a breakdown of your actual costs on this latest addition to Carl's New Jersey Power Center? Do you have a projected break-even date? And for those of use that just paid $0.34 per KWH; what do folks in NJ pay per KWH?
Casey
Casey,
The actual cost for the new 11.2kw array was between 36 and 37 thousand dollars (I haven't added it all up yet) All of the the equipment was purchased wholesale so I saved a bunch of money there. I did all of the installation work including electrical so I saved even more money there.
While this current installation did not qualify for any rebates from the state of New Jersey it does qualify for a 30% federal tax credit which is available to everyone no matter what state you live in. I will receive about 11,000 dollars in tax credits from the federal government so my out of pocket will be about 25,000 dollars.
The system will produce about 2,000 dollars worth of electricity a year and we can sell our Renewable energy credits (we earn 1 credit for each megawatt of electricity the array generates). The array will generate approximately 15 megawatts a year each of which is worth between 650 and 675 dollars each for a total yearly return of about 12,000 dollars. The system will pay itself off in just over two years. In New Jersey the sale of the renewable energy credits is guaranteed for 15 years for the date of install.
We pay .16 per kwh in the area.
Carl
Wow Carl,
That's great. Of course I'm wondering why not do five times this amount. I mean an investment that's guaranteed to break even in 2.5 years with tax credits or 4 years if you don't is a fantastic investment. I wonder how to get Hawaii to do the renewable energy credits program.
If it were a business, like a farm or B&B I wonder if you get to write the system off as well? That would be too good.
How do you buy this stuff wholesale?
Thank you for your great attitude.
Casey
Hi Chris,
I live in Hawaii where about 90% of the energy is from diesel boilers. .34 cents really drives me nuts as I immigrated from Seattle where they're just peeking at .10 a KWH. I did a thread about the costs of energy about a year ago and Hawaii was number one in the states. ;) We were paying almost .43 cents a KWH at that time so we're completely conditioned to think that .34 is a great price.
Cheers,
Update:
Well my 11.2kw array has just reached its one year anniversary and I figured I would report the kWh produced, the cost savings and the profits from the sale of the Solar Renewable Credits
15,556 kWh Produced @ 15.6 cents Per kWh = a savings of 2426.00 Dollars in avoided electricity costs
We sold each credit (1000kWh = 1 credit) for 675.00 for a total of 10,500 Dollars for a total net return of 12,926 dollars.
After the 30% federal tax credit the system cost me just under 24K to install . We are on target to have recouped our investment before the end of 2011.
Great setup and great economics!
Carl, where do you live in NJ? Reason I ask is that I grew up in Carlstadt (about 7 miles west of NYC near the Meadowlands stadium) and completed my undergraduate ME studies at Stevens Institute of Technology in 1980 before heading West and devoting my life to WMD and airplanes...
Bob B.
Hi Carl,
Absolutely fabulous!
My 3 KW system should pass its fourth re-inspection this time but who really knows. We were pulling 2400 watts this morning at 10 AM.
Did you see the thread where someone reported that his panels did better in the winter leaned up against his garage because of the reflection on the snow? He got me thinking about Seattle where I have a an aluminum painted roof facing directly South.
Thanks for the update.
Casey
That is fantastic! Congrats!
Were you expecting that quick of a payback?
Rob
Carl
very good news, and isn't it interesting how things work out?
it occured to me today, that the house i just bought back in kansas
i pay for in full making rent payments here in tacoma washington.
15 months of rent payments in tacoma = the cost of the house w/closing in kansas
an no, i have no idea why it took me so long to do it!
bob g
Quote from: sailawayrb on January 03, 2011, 01:58:08 PM
Great setup and great economics!
Carl, where do you live in NJ? Reason I ask is that I grew up in Carlstadt (about 7 miles west of NYC near the Meadowlands stadium) and completed my undergraduate ME studies at Stevens Institute of Technology in 1980 before heading West and devoting my life to WMD and airplanes...
Bob B.
I live in a rural area in South Jersey.
Quote from: LowGear on January 03, 2011, 03:10:32 PM
Hi Carl,
Absolutely fabulous!
My 3 KW system should pass its fourth re-inspection this time but who really knows. We were pulling 2400 watts this morning at 10 AM.
Did you see the thread where someone reported that his panels did better in the winter leaned up against his garage because of the reflection on the snow? He got me thinking about Seattle where I have a an aluminum painted roof facing directly South.
Thanks for the update.
Casey
My ground mount array does much better with snow on the ground in the winter. The fact that I can tilt the array seasonally makes for a lot more efficient production. My 11.2kw array made 52kWh yesterday
Quote from: rl71459 on January 03, 2011, 03:19:15 PM
That is fantastic! Congrats!
Were you expecting that quick of a payback?
Rob
I expected 2.5 to 3 years based on estimated production amounts. The fact that I can adjust the tilt angle seasonably has increased the output by a fair amount. The estimated production amounts were for a fixed array.
Quote from: mobile_bob on January 03, 2011, 06:39:13 PM
Carl
very good news, and isn't it interesting how things work out?
it occured to me today, that the house i just bought back in kansas
i pay for in full making rent payments here in tacoma washington.
15 months of rent payments in tacoma = the cost of the house w/closing in kansas
an no, i have no idea why it took me so long to do it!
bob g
Bob why did it take you so long to do it? ;D