I am readying the 1115 for gen set service with an ST head of some sort and the more I toy with the engine I the more I wonder about long term stress issues with direct drive. We are not going off grid or anything but storm outages have been often and long lately. We also plan to use it at the farm were we are off grid but needs are sparatic. I am thinking about going belt drive so they may help absorb some of the torsional stresses. I have read about coupling problems which doesnt surprize me. I also worry about the rotor in the being torn to pieces. What are your experainces? Opinions? Lore? Hear say? I am at the point were I need to decide how to drive it to proceed, should have some pics later.
I think multi rib flat belts have many advantages. Much less critical in alignment and more forgiving of absolute rigidity of the frame; If you wish later to swap to another head or engine of different height you are flexible. You can tailor the motor rpm also which might be essential with some engines that you might want to run higher or lower than gen head speed. Belt does a good job of taking up power pulses and it doesnt hurt the wallet much to have a spare.
Some negatives are the side thrust on engine and generator shaft and bearings and large multi rib pulleys are not cheap unless you can roll your own.
Hi playdiesel,
Here is a topic I started a while back. This should help.
I recommend a 10 groove automotive serpentine belt setup for the S1115 engine. An 8 groove is fine for the S195 engine.
http://www.microcogen.info/index.php?topic=61.0
Any questions PM me.
Henry
I have been running both the conventional v-belts and the multi rib flat belts on my engine/generators.
Mostly for the same reasons you expressed (ease of alignment and flexibility with engine speeds).
Sized correctly, either type of belt should give you good service life.
good luck with your project,
veggie
Thanks for the suggestions. I own a 20x60 lathe and a Bridgeport so we can make about any sort of drive and tensioners I wish to have. The fact that you guys are having troubles with the belts slapping is even more ammo for my non-direct drive thoughts. You guys mostly shy away from V-belts if I read the prior posts correctly that is for HP loss considerations, correct? The reason I ask is for my use a dixie cup more of fuel each hour is pretty small price to pay for common parts that can be sourced anywhere. We have mounted the engine to our modified trailer and are about ready to order the generator from Central Georgia Gen.
I don't have any problems what so ever with my belt setup since the idler setup.
It will last thousands of hours without any type of problems. I can say that because I am that sure of the design.
Henry
Here is a pic of the Frankenstein's monster I built. Parts and/or work was contributed from a Mercedes driveshaft, a loose chunk of aluminum, a Chinese taper lock, a couple of bolts from Tractor Supply Company, a big oak tree, a Woodmizer portable sawmill,a couple lengths of angle iron,
and a 1953 Atlas 10" lathe.
I will guarantee it to work until it breaks ::) So far it really does seem to be a pretty good setup. I think I have approximately $68 in the coupling,
and a BUNCH of work.
Ron
here is my take on the various drive options
if you are going to run at 1800rpm, a direct drive will be fine, provided the coupling device is adequately
designed and engineered for the type of service blah blah blah, a direct drive coupling is the most efficient drive option
microgroove belts are nice, but require special pulleys, and add some cost, they are the second most efficient drive system
a V belt drive is generally the easiest to source parts for, and will work as well as anything, provided the engineering is adhered
to and proper sizing for the type of service, they are commonly thought of as the least efficient of the three options
now having said all that, there is very little difference in efficiency between option 1 and 2, and an almost unmeasurable difference
in efficiency between option 2 and 3 in a properly designed drive.
in my opinion V belts get a bad rap for being horribly inefficient when they clearly are not, so long as you use quality products and follow
proper engineering guidelines as laid out by the manufactures.
there are countless reports of how much easier it is to crank over a 6/1 using a micro groove as opposed to a V belt, however
one only has to consider that a very healthy man can only make about a half hp for a short amount of time and that is generally with his
legs pedaling a bicycle. My bet is there are less than 1% of all healthy men that can make a half hp with one arm for more than a few seconds,
a half hp is approx 372 watts, and the 6/1 will take the vast majority of that to turn over with a serpentine belt, so
how much does a V belt actually take? the original listers used some V belts and folks hand started them?
bottom line the difference is probably less than 50 watts between a microgroove belt and a properly sized quality V belt drive on a 6/1
and not much over that for a 1115.
so the options are many and boil down to what you have at hand, how much you want to spend and how available repair parts might be down the road.
if you use a lovejoy, those parts should be available forever, as will 8 groove belts if you use something common , same goes for a V belt drive.
if you go with some wierd direct drive who knows how long it will be available, anything other than 8 or 10 groove might be a problem down the road, and using some odd V belt of an odd length might be a problem down the road, unless you provide plenty of take up room to use other sizes.
bottom line following the manufactures engineering will result in a drive that will work very well for you no matter what you choose to use.
get a browning catalog from your local drive supplier, their catalog has step by step directions for the engineering needed to properly size any drive they offer, and they off them all.
bob g
Quote from: vdubnut62 on April 24, 2010, 09:36:28 PM
Here is a pic of the Frankenstein's monster I built. Parts and/or work was contributed from a Mercedes driveshaft, a loose chunk of aluminum, a Chinese taper lock, a couple of bolts from Tractor Supply Company, a big oak tree, a Woodmizer portable sawmill,a couple lengths of angle iron,
and a 1953 Atlas 10" lathe.
I will guarantee it to work until it breaks ::) So far it really does seem to be a pretty good setup. I think I have approximately $68 in the coupling,
and a BUNCH of work.
Ron
Ron...
i'll bet this little unite will take the thump out thumper http://www.flexible-coupling.com/r-and-d-flexible-shaft-coupling.html (http://www.flexible-coupling.com/r-and-d-flexible-shaft-coupling.html)
(http://www.flexible-coupling.com/pictures/rdmarine/flexshaftcoupling.jpg)
with your set up..it would be an easy retrofit.
I have used these for years, and I haven't found one installation where it has under-preformed...I have seen & heard it dampen some horrendous noise
Lloyd
Kinda like this 'un Lloyd?
Ron