A bit off topic but hey ....
For those of you living off the grid, how do you handle internet access ?
I shudder to think about life without broadband access.
i know of a couple guys that use satellite internet, i guess i works pretty good.
hughsnet iirc is one of them.
bob g
So I don't even get cell reception even though I'm only 10 miles from town ( tower ) as the crow flies since I'm below a 300ft cliff that stand between me and town. I have a 4ft parabolic grid antenna 800MHz that I point to a further away tower that has better line of site, 14.5 miles away. I have a 6W cell amp, then into an EVDO modem, into a cradlepoint EVDO router, then to my gigabit/wireless router, then into a Vonage VOIP router that the regular 5GHz phone hooks to. It works to varying degrees depending on weather etc. I'd much prefer the local WISP but I don't have LOS, my "neighbor" up on the cliffs can get it and they would install a repeater there so I could get it as well for a measly $2K. I'm holding out for 4G LTE now. I decided satellite would be my last resort since VOIP is really bad on it due to latency and packet reordering/prioritization and I need to RDP for my work which also likes like latency.
So if you need internet, first try to find a local WISP, then try Cellular, then Satellite, unless cost is a huge issue in which case satellite might trump cell.
I live off grid. I have a land line with dsl about 3 miles down the shore, at neighbours house. Access point with a grid type directional antenna pointed to my house with a similar grid directional antenna pointed to the access point. A wireless bridge at my end, hooked up to a router for my computers. I have line of site between the two sites. Also a ALCON remote phone for the land line (Phone). The ALCON has been giving problems. I think bad antennas. (Salty air). Internet works great as long as the DSL is up.
Vonage and or Magic Jack internet phones work reasonably well most times. The land line service is government owned and goes down all the time. Phone workers don't care too much. They gota job, but don't work too hard. My system is probably illegal. The phone guys don't mind cause they can't provide me with direct land line service. I don't complain too much cause they will probably shut me down if I do. Hey it's better in the Bahamas.
Chris
That's quite the setup, Jedon, and Chris's hookup is also very impressive.
I have some friends here with satellite internet (Hughes and Wild Blue). It works well, though power consumption is significantly higher than a cellular hookup that only requires an external antenna.
I don't recall the details well, but I had a friend take some actual power consumption measurements on the Hughes unit. My vague memory is about 25 watts, worse sending some big files, slightly better at idle. Since a low power laptop needs about that much power, I thought it was mostly poor design; nowhere near that power is actually radiated.
Depending on the plan, cellular internet is sometimes a bit cheaper and is slower but has less latency if the system isn't heavily loaded. Some people claim Verizon's service is somewhat better than rural DSL, performance wise. For satellite, the latency is near 1 second to load a page and except for big PDF files, even fairly poky DSL is faster for general browsing Satellite has troubles sometimes with peak loading, also. (I previously had Hughes one way service; on occasion I would switch to phone line as it was faster at about 28Kbaud.)
Replicating my custom rear projection workstation in a low power version for my off grid place is a big project that I hope to be tackling this summer. I intend to try the cellular (Verizon) internet service first, as the transmitted power is much less, and I can use the east (steel) wall of my shop between the external antenna and house. If that service sucks, then I'll go satellite dish.
I have phone service at m off grid place via my fiber-linked cell phone system now; it originally connected via Yagi to a tower 24 miles away, not line of sight but no major mountains.
We have wild blue. I do remote desk top with it and it is useable, but not great. We also have cell phone service which is marginal so I use an external antenna on the phone. I am working with a provider to get wisp in the area.
Tom, I'd be very grateful if you could take some typical power consumption measurements on the Wild Blue system. The company could not provide that to me; they had no idea what their actual power consumption was.
I've been land line forever....almost went satellite.......then a local line of sight but big trees in the way.. way out there....We ended up with a Verizon aircard.....this model has a plug for the antenna which helps big time, and the part that it so portable. Not the fastest a little slower than our dsl at work but for a landline guy it is zippy for me.
Thanks for the report on the Verizon service, Dave. I'm already on slow rural DSL so I know I can live with that level of performance for my needs. There is WIFI service within line of sight (6 miles) from a hill on my property but they are oversubscribed and service is so poor they won't take more customers.
I've got a mobile Verizon card plugged into my desktop in WV . Right on the roaming boundry at present. Speed is only slightly ok,but it disconnects at will, anywhere from 3 seconds to 1 1/2 hrs,ya never know. Acording to Verizion ,when I get to my permant location at Craigsville, I will have faster service, n no dropout. We shall see.
We will be off-grid (house under construction) starting in September. I plan on using WISP with WiMAX line of sight to WISP mountaintop accesspoint. (See applegatebroadband.net). Will have to use an ethernet extender for about 800 ft to house. Should get up to 6 mbp for surfing and work, and will provide VOIP phone as well.
Is anyone using an OOMA for their VOIP phone connection? A one time charge of $249.99 plus $35.00, if you want to keep your current phone number. It would pay for it's self in about 11 months at Vonage's current price of $24.95 a month.
scott
That should be a sweet performing setup, Marcus. I wish the WIFI provider in nearby Concho AZ would upgrade to WIMAX. It would solve their loading and performance problems nicely. Alas, the company was bought by Cellular One and they seem happy to let it flounder.
@lowspeedlife: why is OOMA better than Vonage? (Don't use Vonage, so I don't know what their deal is.) I've had Broadvoice (broadvoice.com) for a few years now as our VOIP provider and we've been very happy. Cheaper than landline, but they've recently added a bunch of mandated taxes so it's not as good of a deal as it once was. Still, I put a Broadvoice VOIP box at our partnership's (4 families) vacation rental in the Swiss alps, and the renters have a US telephone number to call home from and free calling to anywhere in Europe and the US. Never going back to landline...
@BruceM: I don't know much about WiMAX, but the WISP is getting it setup over the next month on their system. Can't wait to move out in the sticks and break free from the cable company's stranglehold on me! Of course, then there's the WISP stranglehold, but it couldn't be any worse...
and once you have internet, I'm a fan of skype, but it's not a handset based phone system.
WIMAX has much more bandwidth, and actually schedules timeslots for each active link so that performance under load is reported as much superior to WIFI. (WIFI has an ethernet-like system where anybody can try to transmit at any time, and collisions increase dramatically with increased service loading. More distant links tend to fair very poorly. WIMAX is much better suited to a rural long distance situation.
we have a bunch of services from the ridiculously expensive Hughes-net to Prairienet where I didn't even get a sorry when I only had 5 days of service out of a month, no returned calls, office seldom open during operating hours and daily calls to have them reset my account up to the speed I was paying for because they would set it down every evening before they went home. I finally went to dial-up for a couple of years. Then I tried one that showed up to install it the same day I ordered it. 20 minutes after the installer left it quit and they said it would be 9 days till they could come to fix it. I canceled the account within an hour of it being installed. Then I tried another one that worked fine till a tree in line with the tower got leaves on it and the signal stopped. The service was fine till then so I built a 40 foot mast and it has been working fine for the last couple of years. I also use magic-jack for telephone too and it works fine. We were supposed to have high speed through the phone lines 5 or 6 months ago but that never happened.
Hey Marcus, OOMA is basically the same thing as vonage, call forwarding, call waiting, voicemail ect, the difference is once you have paid for it you never have to pay again. vonage costs 24.99 a month, OOMA is a one time 249.95 & that's it, forever! So after ten months it costs you nothing. Oh & a one time 35.00 fee if you want to transfer your current phone number.
Scott R.
Quote from: BruceM on March 14, 2010, 10:22:10 PM
Tom, I'd be very grateful if you could take some typical power consumption measurements on the Wild Blue system. The company could not provide that to me; they had no idea what their actual power consumption was.
BruceM
My Watts-Up meter says 11/12 watts with an occasional flash of up to 25 watts. I'm running 2 OutBack vfx3648's and my idle current for the whole house at night is 2.6 amps. The satellite system stays on 24/7.
Tom
Thank you Tom!
I'll have my friend John re-do the measurement on the Hughes satellite with a Watts Up next week or so, and will post those results. I think your Wild Blue unit is the lower of the two, but he only used my clamp on amp meter before, so the readings were questionable.
Late on this thread, but...
I have Wildblue. For a guy that got 3k/sec for years on my rural dialup, it's OK. If you are used to "real" highspeed, it will blow. I have NO choice here, so it works for me. :) I'm all the way off grid here.
I draw about 20 watts, reliability is good, customer service is good.
Jonathan
Johnathan, was your typical power measured with Kill a Watt or volt/amp meter? I ask because the crappy power factor (PF) of some switching supplies would tend to exaggerate the power consumption. If you did use a V/A measurement, that would help explain the difference between your reading and Tom's. 11 vs 20 watts is quite a jump.
Maybe Tom can remember what the PF was, or perhaps they are different model #'s of transceivers?
My Wildblue setup draws about 14 watts. With my IMac, total draw is a 100 watts Depending on the DVD running or not. Measured on my Tri-metric (couldn't live without it!). Been with them going on 4 years. LNA did a year and a half ago... free parts, 40 dollars mileage cuz I'm so far out in the sticks... I ain't kickin! On the wrong side of the hill for WIFI!?!?!
mike
I noticed that the Asus Eee Box is now available at Walmart online. The higher performance dual core processor and higher end video chip version is a bit more but is still listed at 20 watts. Perhaps a lie, but maybe a promising setup. Running Linux, the Asus netbooks are pretty decent; the EeePC netbook my girlfriend has is very responsive. (She has no anti-virus, I have AVG on XP.)
I just don't need a high end machine, most of the time I'm just doing email and web browsing. Alas, I have to be able to run XP for some engineering programs I do occasionally run.
Anyone seen some good deals on low power Mini-ITX or nano-ITX machines?
My laptop only draws 40W with the screen off, My PC is 250W! I charge my laptop at work :-D Getting the wife a laptop soon hopefully.
My son and I built my PC it is a core 2 quad in a Silentium case which lives up to its name and is almost silent. Idle current is around 60 w. It is mated to a lg flatron w86 lcd monitor that uses 28 w. I do a lot of database applications and wanted a low power quite number cruncher.
Tom
I also live "in the sticks" but have business requirements for solid very high bandwidth connections. My solution is probably a little pricey for the typical residential user, but it works VERY well.
I have a 70' tower at my house. I negotiated a spot on a rural water tower about 8 miles away which had line-of-site to my tower. I have a 5.8Ghz PTP link from my tower to the water tower. I have a bridge router at the tower and another PTP link from there to a site in town 5 miles away where cable data service is available. All three towers have dissipaters and polyphaser lightning protection as well as battery back-ups. I've been able to maintain 36mbit links even during blizzard conditions.
If anyone wants further details, I would be happy to recommend components, towers, RF links, etc. I design and install telemetry systems for a living so this is all old-hat stuff to me.
I have tried all the sat service providers and was very displeased with all of them. Using my tower, I could have made a cellular connection, but the bandwidth limitations were a kill for my needs.
Cheers,
Chris S.
Jens,
I offered to replace their troublesome aging telemetry cable run in exchange for the ability to add my hardware, so I didn't end up with any re-occurring cost. Since I had to climb the tower anyway for the install I was only out about $200 worth of LMR400 cable. The PTP transceivers were almost $2000 ea (times 4) and the tower was about $4000, so yes.... I have a pile wrapped up in the whole mess, but it's absolutely solid and all top quality gear. In my case, thought, it's part of the tools of my trade, so it's already paid for itself.
Oh...and just to keep with the forum topic, my network has run extensively on Listeroid power during several outages :-) I can also report that the newer APC UPS's with the adjustable power sensitivity will work just fine on the noisy power from a 24/2 with an ST head.
pat Thumper for me.
Chris
Very impressive, Chris. You win the prize, hands down, for the ultimate remote internet connection!
Well thanks Bruce, but I'll just put my humble hat on and say that it's simply an example of the philosophy that most things are really fairly easy if you can throw enough money at them.
I really need to write something up for the "member projects" section about my generators. I have a dual generator system that's really pretty neat if I do say so. Primary is a White 100kW full auto start/transfer. It's in it's own building and has a hospital grade exhaust silencer. Wireless telemetry of all parameters back to a touchscreen panel in my house for monitoring. For long-term, lower power operation, I can transfer the feed over to my lister which is mounted in my shop building. My house has an Asco 7000 series ATS which is primary control for the generator. My shop has a secondary ATS also fed from both generators. I had to rent a rather large crane to move the big generator as it had to be lifted OVER the top of my shop due to terrain and trees. (nuther example of easy if you spend money).
cheers,
Chris
Chris
Your system sounds absolutely spectacular! That 100kw unit must be able to burn some serious fuel.
Do you sync when switching from one to the other?
I would love to see some pict's if you have any.
Rob
Chris,
Your power system and the wireless internet all sound so far upscale to anything the rest of us have cobbled together you just have to post some pictures. In a word...WOW. 8)
Do you actually need the power of the 100 kW White or was that just a good deal machine that came your way? I wouldn't be able to afford the fuel to idle an engine that size.
I am always looking for good used generators for customers and ran across this one at an auction. Although it only had 280 hours on it, it was represented as non-functional, so I did pick it up pretty cheap (relatively speaking). As I suspected, the injection pump was shot due to fuel contamination. An overhaul + new belts and hoses had the beast back online in no time. Since it gets plenty hot here in Oklahoma, I wanted something big enough to run both A/C units plus everything else if needed. The White burns about 3gph, so I wouldn't want to feed it for a long time. Fine for those brief storm related outages where I just want to get on with life, but not ideal for those multi-week winter ice storm outages. That's why the Lister is available also (plus I enjoy tinkering with it )
The ASCO transfer switch does indeed do sync-before-switch transfers. It works quite nicely although I can usually tell when I transfer from generator back to line (If I'm running the lister/ST) as the generator output is about 8 volts higher than line so lights dim ever so slightly. Otherwise, there's not so much as a flicker.
My next hobby project is to tie this all together to my local telemetry network so the "house" can send me a text message if anything happens. If nobody is at home, I want to be able to shut down the generator via cell phone.
Hobbies can sure get out of control if you start applying random justifications to them, can't they :-)
Thought y'all might get a chuckle out of this pic: Lifting a bit over 12,000 lbs over the top of my shop to get the big gen to it's new home. As soon as the weather gets better, next task is to sand and re-paint the box. It's actually in good shape, but sure is ugly. Fortunately, it's like new inside though.
(http://members.cox.net/cschuerm/Gen/p1030438.jpg)
Quote from: cschuerm on March 21, 2010, 04:24:08 PM
Thought y'all might get a chuckle out of this pic: Lifting a bit over 12,000 lbs over the top of my shop to get the big gen to it's new home. As soon as the weather gets better, next task is to sand and re-paint the box. It's actually in good shape, but sure is ugly. Fortunately, it's like new inside though.
Man that crane looks small for that much weight. Obviously it wasn't but the hard hat still looked a little useless LOL. I would like to have that just to say I owned it.
Amazingly, the crane was rated for 24 tons (de-rated based on boom angle of course).
Yeah, I had to chuckle at the rigger's hat too. Had this mental image of Wylie Coyote holding a little umbrella over his head while a huge rock fell on top of him :-)
Chris
something is way wrong with the crane rating of 24tons
that crane can't lift 24tons at anywhere past the side of the truck, and that truck is far to light for that sort of load.
someone mislabeled that crane!
i work on just that sort of crane and that is a very light truck for a boom that is to lift much over maybe 10tons with the first stage
and have the load much over maybe 8-10ft off the edge of the truck bed.
all i can say is you are lucky he got it placed for you, and i would not want any part of service work on that crane for that company
someone will end up getting killed before long if they do lifting anywhere near 24tons.
thats just flat out scary
bob g
Thanks Jens :-)
Saved up for many years to finally get my dream shop - it's sure nice to have! Of course, it's almost totally full of "toys" now.
Regarding the synchronization:
The Asco assumes that there is a slight variation in frequency of multiple sources and when the logic decides to transfer between two live sources, it just waits until they come into phase. You can configure to to just transfer without sync or wait a period of time for sync to occur. If it doesn't come into sync in the configured time, it can be configured to either not transfer or go ahead and ignore the out of sync condition. It also monitors just about every aspect of power you'd care to care about. Pretty spiffy bit of hardware. I lucked across a great deal on this one from an electrical contractor I work with who had a couple left over after a big telecom project.
re the crane: I'm no expert - just read what the instructions on the unit said. It was provided by a major cartage firm with a professional rigger, so I assume they know what they're doing. I do think it looks a LOT smaller in the pictures than it really was.
cheers,
chris
Quote from: cschuerm on March 22, 2010, 07:33:58 PM
Thanks Jens :-)
Saved up for many years to finally get my dream shop - it's sure nice to have! Of course, it's almost totally full of "toys" now.
cheers,
chris
I know what you mean about toys. When I moved out here to Texas from Florida I had to get the biggest u-haul truck they had and that was loaded to the top. All my personal stuff was in two boxes and a duffel bag on the seat beside me. You know how they say to throw out anything you haven't used in the last g months, well ...... some of that junk collection I have had for 30 years and I have become quite attached to it. Hay you never know when you might need a vacuum tube. That is why my home is a 20 foot shipping container and my shop is a 40 footer.
FWIW (For What It's Worth)
I currently Use a set of profesional wireless units (one is an "AP" access point), the other is a "CPE" Client Premise Equipment (Client of the AP)
The connection is over 10 miles and the units with the right antennas will do 25+ miles.
If anyone is intrested, I would consider selling the extra units I have, with 50% of the sale going to the message board as a donation.
I have a total of 4 Ap's (Base) and 12 CPE's (Remote) all S/W and installation instructions, as well as I would be willing to "consult" free of charge for the install.
More than one CPE can talk to the base at once, so a small sharing network could be configured for people that live close to each other.
Price is open to offers, (again 50% would be a board donation), units where over 1000 each new, 7 years ago.
a31ford,
I might be interested in your links, my "neighbor" is attempting to get a WISP that I don't have LOS to, but I can probably get near LOS ( some trees in the way maybe ) to him. Distance is 2500ft, he is up on the cliffs above me, 300ft elevation higher.
What kind of antenna would be used for a short distance like that, yagi? parabolic? bi-quad?
OK my internet has been up and down driving me crazy.
A quick refresher on my system.
Land line with DSL is about 3 mile down the shore at a neighbours generator shed with an access point atnennas etc pointing to my house.
He has been having trouble with people messing with his stuff, so he has locked the gate to his property. Can't blame him! So when I need to do a reset on the DSL modem, I used to drive down and plug and unplug. Now I have to try and track him down to do the reset. So far he has been OK with this, but I see this as becoming a problem. So I want to reset remotely! I have been trying to find a "Black Box" that I can plug the Modem into that will allow me to call it and turn the power off and then back on via the land line. Anyone have any suggestions where to get the "Black Box"?
Thanks,
Chris
Quote from: Chris on April 10, 2010, 05:48:09 PM
OK my internet has been up and down driving me crazy.
A quick refresher on my system.
Land line with DSL is about 3 mile down the shore at a neighbours generator shed with an access point atnennas etc pointing to my house.
He has been having trouble with people messing with his stuff, so he has locked the gate to his property. Can't blame him! So when I need to do a reset on the DSL modem, I used to drive down and plug and unplug. Now I have to try and track him down to do the reset. So far he has been OK with this, but I see this as becoming a problem. So I want to reset remotely! I have been trying to find a "Black Box" that I can plug the Modem into that will allow me to call it and turn the power off and then back on via the land line. Anyone have any suggestions where to get the "Black Box"?
Thanks,
Chris
That's easy. Just run a second string and instead of a tin can on each end one end has a pull ring, the other a spring loaded switch.... :D
I gotta show you guys the Universal Remote Volume Control I made for my living room stereo!
Quote from: Chris on April 10, 2010, 05:48:09 PM
I have been trying to find a "Black Box" that I can plug the Modem into that will allow me to call it and turn the power off and then back on via the land line. Anyone have any suggestions where to get the "Black Box"?
One of these might work for you:
http://www.homecontrols.com/Monterey-Instruments-X10-TeleMaster-MITMS
http://www.homecontrols.com/X10-PRO-Telephone-Responder-XPPHC06
At my remote ranch, I use X10 to turn ON/OFF a 56K modem/router/wireless access point (google Wiflyer) and several wireless cameras (google Linksys WVC54GCA) that are trigged by motion detection and email me the photos/video (sample photo attached). When powered ON, the Wiflyer 56K modem dials the IP phone number and gains access to Internet. The cameras wirelessly communicate to the Wiflyer access point and no computer is even required at the remote location.
A friend also uses the X10 system. When I was a kid I was a fan of the XL5 system.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oboly57qxjg
You could send the XL5 to your remote ranch and Steve Zodiak could blast any intruders directly.
Sorry, I've had a really rough week!
sailawayrb,
Thanks, that looks like what I am looking for. Radio Shack used to carry something like that years ago. I don't recall a telephone interface, but I am thinking 30 years ago or so. I think that unit was made by Zenith, remember them?
So as I see it, I would need X10 Pro telephone responder XPPHCO6 $69.95
and X10 duplex XPPAO11 $19.95
Say $90.00 plus tax and shipping.
I will give them a call on Monday and order it.
Seems like a fair price to me.
Again thanks again. Love this site!
Chris
Quote from: rcavictim on April 10, 2010, 09:01:08 PM
A friend also uses the X10 system. When I was a kid I was a fan of the XL5 system.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oboly57qxjg
You could send the XL5 to your remote ranch and Steve Zodiak could blast any intruders directly.
Sorry, I've had a really rough week!
Thanks for the laugh there RCA the clips on utube that your link took me to were great stuff.
Billswan
I want one of those motor bikes, then I could just fly over the gate. Thanks
Chris
Hey sailawayrb
Better Check that picture! Someone is stealing your leaves! The nerve of some people! ;D
Quote from: rl71459 on April 11, 2010, 04:54:53 PM
Hey sailawayrb
Better Check that picture! Someone is stealing your leaves! The nerve of some people! ;D
Yeah, that's my grounds keeper. I hired my neighbor's kid to clear some brush/trees and just keep the place looking good in general since we only there about every two months. This is a fairly remote area in southern OR. In addition to turning on the system at a prearranged time every day, I also have X10 flood lights with motion detection that will turn on the system day or night. Something triggers the system nearly every day...the grounds keeper, deer, elk, wild turkeys, skunk, raccoons and even a bear and a cougar a few times.
Bob B.
Quote from: sailawayrb on April 17, 2010, 12:56:52 PM
Quote from: rl71459 on April 11, 2010, 04:54:53 PM
Hey sailawayrb
Better Check that picture! Someone is stealing your leaves! The nerve of some people! ;D
Yeah, that's my grounds keeper. I hired my neighbor's kid to clear some brush/trees and just keep the place looking good in general since we only there about every two months. This is a fairly remote area in southern OR. In addition to turning on the system at a prearranged time every day, I also have X10 flood lights with motion detection that will turn on the system day or night. Something triggers the system nearly every day...the grounds keeper, deer, elk, wild turkeys, skunk, raccoons and even a bear and a cougar a few times.
Bob B.
Did you ever get sent a system activation warning picture of Bigfoot taking a dump on your lawn? :D
Hey sailawayrb/Bob B.,
You're in So. Oregon?! (At least your "hideaway" is.) Thought I was the only one. We're building an off-grid log home 15 miles outside Grants Pass, also with masonry heater, Listeroid for backup power, etc. Feel free to PM me if you want. Hah, from that one picture, your place could be down the street from us! Of course most of Western Oregon looks like that. :)
Marcus
Quote from: mbryner on April 17, 2010, 10:01:18 PM
Hey sailawayrb/Bob B.,
You're in So. Oregon?! (At least your "hideaway" is.) Thought I was the only one. We're building an off-grid log home 15 miles outside Grants Pass, also with masonry heater, Listeroid for backup power, etc. Feel free to PM me if you want. Hah, from that one picture, your place could be down the street from us! Of course most of Western Oregon looks like that. :)
Marcus
Hi Marcus,
Very cool indeed! Our "hideaway" is about 25 miles (35 minutes) north of Rogue River on Evans Creek. We currently live and work in Seattle area and this place will become our retirement home in about 5 to 10 years time, God willing. We were considering building a real log cabin, but we have decided to go with conventional construction (combination slab/crawl space foundation, 6 inch stud exterior walls), passive solar, relatively small home (1480 sq ft). We will be doing most of the actual construction ourselves and we are more fluent and comfortable with conventional construction. However, we plan to use cedar log siding that does look pretty real:
http://www.woodworkersshoppe.com/log_corners.htm
So when we are done, it will look like a log home with river rock on lower couple of feet and have a green metal roof. As you know, forest fires are a real concern. We will be completing our fire suppression/irrigation system this summer that uses a hydro ram pump water from creek into a 10K gallon underground cistern.
The place currently has a single wide manufactured home. We plan to build a garage/shop with 400 sq ft of living space (maximum allowed by Jackson County for a detached living space) within the next couple years. When we retire and sell our Seattle place, we will live in the garage/shop detached living space, remove the single wide, and build the house. In addition to Evans Creek, we also have another year-round stream that we have irrigation and hydro rights.
Here's my 6/1 setup that is currently in my suburban Seattle garage:
http://listerenginegallery.com/main.php?g2_itemId=351
Bob B.
Bob B.,
I looked at your 6/1 pics on the Listergallery a while back and again today. Very impressive and professional job!
We looked at a few places in Evans Creek area. Pretty area, but on the opposite side of town from the hospital in Grants Pass, and I don't like stoplights! :) And we had to stay within 20 minutes from the hospital. We bought 320 acres of timberland in the Williams Valley, a side valley from Applegate Valley.
Nice log siding. Looks pretty easy to install. I made faux log siding for our "powerhouse" using 2x8's over conventional framing and sheathing. We were very happy with the results, so I have no problem with log siding.
http://www.docbryner.com/4images177/details.php?image_id=8164
Metal roof is the only way to go around here, IMHO. You are using an underground 10k gal cistern; we have 10k gal in tanks above ground with dedicated 2" fire lines underground.
You are very lucky about the irrigation and hydro rights. Those are sometimes hard to come by around here. I'm jealous. We have Upper Powell Creek, but all water we use has to come from the well (unless I bootleg something in later).
Our log home is square logs w/ dove tail corners. The price with erection was very reasonable.
http://www.stonemill.com
http://www.docbryner.com/4images177/details.php?image_id=8181
http://www.docbryner.com/4images177/details.php?image_id=8159
For everyone who thinks this thread is detouring: our internet and VIOP phone will come from Applegate Broadband, line of sight wireless at up to 14 Mbps. http://www.apbb.net
Drop me a line next time you come down from Seattle...
Marcus
Hi Marcus,
Wow, you have quite a construction project going on and your view is absolutely gorgeous. I can fully understand staying within 20 minutes of the "office". The commute to my Boeing office is 15 minutes and I wouldn't have it any other way.
Yes, a place with water rights was very high on our priority list. It took us almost 2 years of active searching all over WA and OR to find this place. We only have 10 acres, but we are surrounded by BLM land and are in a sensitive deer/elk wildlife area.
I see that you have what appears to be a septic or water tank under your garage floor. Please tell me more about that? Right now, we only have 1500 gal plastic tank used for irrigation. Our 10K underground cistern will be filled using a hydro ram pump (i.e., no electric required...uses kinetic energy of the stream). Our fire suppression functionality will be via 70 GPM pump/water cannon that is powered from hydro electric power and can be remotely triggered/operated. It will also have the standard 2" fire lines and standard fittings to allow a fire truck to hook up and pump. The irrigation is currently via a standard 1.5 HP sprinkler pump off of the 1500 gal plastic tank and it will be moved to the 10K underground cistern once this is completed this summer.
...and to stay on topic, we currently use Computer Country for our 56K phone modem IP service:
http://www.ccountry.net/
We would enjoy meeting you sometime and we will let you know when we plan to visit our "hideaway" for an extended time. We have been getting there about every 6 weeks on average for a 4 day weekend. We spent a week there over the Christmas holiday season last year and expect to spend a week or two there during the summer season.
Bob B.
Hi Bob,
I love the hydro ram pump idea. Why did you go with a huge buried cistern, instead of above ground tanks? A fire at above ground tanks would be problematic, I guess.
Yes, there is a buried concrete "septic" tank under our basement. It's for hot water/thermal storage. I'm going to line the inside with 6" of Rmax (polyisocyo foam) then a high temp compatible liner. That should give it about R=40. I'll keep it hot by solar panels, a stainless steel water coil in the masonry heater, and a propane boiler. Domestic water will be heated by it via a copper loop heat exchanger. The incoming well water will never mix with the tank water due to the heat exchanger. The solar panels will have their own heat exchanger, too, thus satisfying the requirement for double wall between potable water and antifreeze.
Also, you can't see the "earth-tube" pipes under the foundation for AC. They daylight to the hillside after about 100". Not as deep as optimal, but under the slab it's always shady, so they should provide some measure of cooling. A high efficiency whole house fan will suck the air through the tubes and then blow through ducts to the main floor.
I started a thread a few months ago about it with a few pics:
http://www.microcogen.info/index.php?topic=655.0
The water storage tanks are ~120 ft vertical from the house elevation, giving good gravity pressure to the whole water system.
The rest is just the "standard" JKson 6/1 for backup power, PV panels, batteries, inverters, etc. :) Hope the tax refund comes soon...I need to pay for it all!
Marcus
Nice part of the world you guys. I would love to have a place there for the summer months when it just gets too hot here, Abaco Bahamas.
Sailawayrb. I ordered the x10 phone controller from Home Controls and should have it in hand by Thursday. I will let you know how it works out for me. Thanks for the contact info. Seems like a good company to deal with.
Chris
I finally installed the X10 phone home controller. Works like a champ. Very cool. Able to reset my DSL modem 3 miles down the shore from home or anywhere. I have the access point on the same outlet as the modem, so when I do a reset by sending a signal to turning off the plug that powers the modem and access point, I see that the access point has also gone down from my wireless bridge. When I send a signal to turn the outlet back on, I see that the access point is back up and the reset is in process. It is great. Some times it takes a couple goes to get the modem to reboot.
Chris
Quote from: Chris on June 02, 2010, 07:27:09 PM
I finally installed the X10 phone home controller. Works like a champ. Very cool. Able to reset my DSL modem 3 miles down the shore from home or anywhere. I have the access point on the same outlet as the modem, so when I do a reset by sending a signal to turning off the plug that powers the modem and access point, I see that the access point has also gone down from my wireless bridge. When I send a signal to turn the outlet back on, I see that the access point is back up and the reset is in process. It is great. Some times it takes a couple goes to get the modem to reboot.
Chris
Good deal and glad to hear it works for you. The X10 protocol isn't 100% reliable, but for most applications it's more than adequate and good bang for the buck. For maximum reliability it is best to keep the X10 transmitter and all the receivers on the same CB circuit, or at least keep them on the same 120 VAC side of CB panel. Otherwise you may need to add a X10 repeater and/or a cross-over capacitor.
Hey Chris, you win the prize for most perserverence to connect to the internet ;) ! Leland
Hey thanks all for the comments. The basic X10, which is pretty cheap with no phone interface is about $25.00 and the switchable plug or switch is about another $25.00. With this one would be able to set up a remote start/stop on a two wire gen start system. This could be useful for those who don't have start/stop control wire going between house and gen shed. With some thought it could work.
Chris
Quote from: Chris on March 14, 2010, 01:40:20 PM
I live off grid. I have a land line with dsl about 3 miles down the shore, at neighbours house. Access point with a grid type directional antenna pointed to my house with a similar grid directional antenna pointed to the access point. A wireless bridge at my end, hooked up to a router for my computers. I have line of site between the two sites. Also a ALCON remote phone for the land line (Phone). The ALCON has been giving problems. I think bad antennas. (Salty air). Internet works great as long as the DSL is up.
Vonage and or Magic Jack internet phones work reasonably well most times. The land line service is government owned and goes down all the time. Phone workers don't care too much. They gota job, but don't work too hard. My system is probably illegal. The phone guys don't mind cause they can't provide me with direct land line service. I don't complain too much cause they will probably shut me down if I do. Hey it's better in the Bahamas.
Chris
I was concerned when my ISP installed my DSL since I do not pay for a landline phone service. I asked what would happen if there was a problem with the line and they said the phone company would fix it. Of course I am not in the Bahamas but I imagine things work the same there.
Good Morning All
Living out in the sticks I had been getting mailed offers for HughsNet Gen Four Satellite internet service.
Not getting offers for the newer HughsNet Gen Five Satellite internet service.
Anybody usding?
What has been your experiences?
Thanks
J-I-C Steve Unruh
Wow, old thread...
These days we like at our remote place full time. There's no cell coverage, cable, TV/radio reception where we live. We have been using Wild Blue Excede satellite for our Internet for about three years. It works fine for streaming Netflix and such. We use Ooma over the Internet for our phone and security system. Works great.
I didn't realize you could do phone via satellite due to the latency. I assume it's still about 1 second? 22000 miles up and down takes some time.
Hey Rob (sailawayrb) long time no see! or hear, or is it "read"?
so how are you and the better half doing these days, iirc you guys setup down in oregon somewhere out in the
puckerbrush?
good to see you about.
bob g
Hi Bob, Bruce,
Yes Bob, I have been quite busy with things and I haven't had much time to visit the Listeroid forums and such. I retired from Boeing a couple years now and have been doing Borst Engineering & Construction stuff full-time at semi-retired pace...
www.BorstEngineeringConstruction.com
Boeing decided to move my group from Seattle to SoCal so that enabled me to get a good severance package and leave earlier than I likely would have otherwise. So Gayle and I moved to our southern OR property full time and we are enjoying all it has to offer...especially the fly fishing, abundant wildlife and sparseness of people... We are staunch environmentalists and we worked with Water Watch to get the last two dams removed on Evans Creek several miles downstream from us. These dams had ceased being used for anything many years ago and didn't provide adequate fish bypass. We are now just starting to see Salmon and Steelhead in the sections of Evans Creek and Spignet Creek which flow through our property. There is more info and videos of the dam removal on the Affiliates tab of my company website. So we are quite excited about this development...
We lived in our 800 sf mobile home the first year while I built our shop/garage with guest quarters last year. We are now living in our 400 sf guest quarters (and use the 1400 sf garage/shop area for our office space and kitchen). I am presently building our 2400 sf house which will take about 18-24 months to complete as I am doing nearly everything myself at a fairly relaxed pace like I did the garage/shop building. All these single level buildings are of course a passive solar cooling/heating design with hydronic floor heating and are constructed using ICF (Insulated Concrete Forms) and of material to be as fire-resistant as possible. The house will also have a masonry heater too. I brought 600A grid power into the garage/shop building and did the electrical panels such that this grid power, generator power (and future hydro and solar power) can be easily transferred from the garage/shop to all the buildings on the property. So really the perfect lifestyle for us and a great "retirement" project for me that will last for several more years. And our Listeroid generator still serves us very well on its portable resilient mount stand...
Bruce, we have not found the latency to be a problem at all for using our Ooma or for using our cell phones in Wi-Fi mode to make/receive phone calls. There is a slight noticeable delay, but it's not a problem...and having essentially free phone service is also nice. However, I suspect the latency would be problematic for computer gaming.
Bob
Thanks Bob/Rob for the recommendation.
And the personal update.
One often wonders . . . where did they all sail off too??
Regards
J-I-C Steve Unruh
Just thought I should update this old topic...
We got SpaceX Starlink this past weekend. Currently seeing 140M down and 20M up with 30ms latency. Got Starlink connected to our Ubiquity UniFi LAN and it is beyond impressive...especially when I recall how we started out here with a telephone landline cable modem...
What's that costing you? We're on a wifi system that works reasonably well, but it's not that fast.
Currently free for me. Normally costs $500 for equipment and $99/month. It should reach 1G later this year with less latency and they will be launching 10G satellites later this year or early next year.
I do not consider my area the sticks but we are rural. We have no cable and don't even have DSL access so our choices are phone modem, Hugh's or 4G data. We don't use enough to justify spending big bucks for internet and currently use a combination of 4g and Hugh's sattelite which sucks on its best day and goes down from there, I think my original 3.2 phone modem was faster. We get by but will be happy when I see the high speed guys putting a cable down our road!
Yes, HughesNet truly sucks...lousy performance and far worse customer support... After a couple years of landline cable modem, we had Wild Blue for a couple years (it eventually became ViaSat) and then HughesNet for a couple years. After a month or so of HughesNet service, we couldn't get more than 5M down and HughesNet wouldn't make any effort to fix it...until after you actually cancelled their service. We have had ViaSat for several years and get 48M down, 5.5M up and 860ms latency...which other than the high latency, is quite good and enables streaming HD. Even VOIP works okay with this high latency, just not gaming.
Quote from: playdiesel on February 02, 2021, 05:32:47 AM
I do not consider my area the sticks but we are rural. We have no cable and don't even have DSL access so our choices are phone modem, Hugh's or 4G data. We don't use enough to justify spending big bucks for internet and currently use a combination of 4g and Hugh's sattelite which sucks on its best day and goes down from there, I think my original 3.2 phone modem was faster. We get by but will be happy when I see the high speed guys putting a cable down our road!
That better be a fiber optic cable. We are on an old stage coach road (Black Bart used to hold up stage coaches on) that's still dirt for the last mile to our house. However there's fiber in the road. I made an attempt to connect to it, however it seems to be the major under sea cable to HI so no go.