Hypothetically speaking of course.....There is a right way and a wrong way. Let's say you have a residential house and you have built this big dinosaur generator into your detached garage with some kind of contraband chinese generator head that may or may not have UL or CSA approval. You find yourself in a major power outage and you really would like to power up your house but you haven't got around to having a proper generator priority panel installed and your generator may not pass code. I guess you could just sit in the cold and dark and have all your food spoil. Or maybe there is another way that an educated person could overcome this problem? Come on, let's open up the big taboo subject! I'll stick my neck out a little here, it involves a set of large twist lock connectors and a Dryer cord.
Tim SR2
I'd also reckon most have already planned for, and already have what they need on hand to get the job done!
My electrician friend called mine a "Double Jesus Cord" ;D
Rob
I guess there is no danger provided there is a 100% certainty that the Mains power is disconnected.
Any problems at that point would be localized to the residence.
Those poor buggers working on power line repairs after a long outage must be wondering when some guy will unexpectedly fire up his 10kw genny and plug it into an outlet, forgetting to shut off the mains, and back feed the dead wires he's working on.
I'm sure everyone is aware of Transfer Switches.
Just install a cheap transfer switch so there's no need to turn off the mains power.
Peace of mind!
Example:
http://www.reliancecontrols.com/ProductDetail.aspx?31410C (http://www.reliancecontrols.com/ProductDetail.aspx?31410C)
You can get a 7.5k rated box with 8 breakers and a watt meter for each leg for around $285.00
Veggie
Hypothetically of course.........To be common sense legal....maybe not UL or Insurance approved......I have a main disconnect under the meter that I can kill the grid to the farm for sure. I throw a lock on it and now the grid it is locked out! Some main panels have a lock and to me locking out the grid leaves it your business. I won't hurt someone on a pole just me! I then go out to the machine shed where my "oid" is and pull the cover off a sub main and have a cord wired up with a 20amp(15's are hard to find) 220 breaker. I snap in the breaker and connect the neutral and ground leave off the cover and turn off the breaker. Before all of this I have gone into the house and the shop and turned off all the breakers (my 6/1 won't run all of it!). Start my generator then go turn on what it can handle. I have to load share for sure but I can flush the toilet watch TV have lights pellet stove for heat refer for a cold one just not all at once! I'm sure it is not code but that is my way.......
Hypothetically this is how I would do it.
For 5 kw generator. Install small breaker panel to gen set, wall mount it with a section of 12/4 cabtire cable. 2/20 amp breakers in the panel. From this panel a short section of 12/4 to a female NEMA 30 amp twist lock. Near the genset in the shop, install dryer outlet in the wall, very handy for running welders and portable heaters. Hang up on the wall when not in use, a dryer cord from Home depot (what I call the suicide cable) , with a male 30A twistlock on one end.
The main breaker on the house panel would have to be in the OFF position. Then one would reduce load by flipping off any un needed breakers, connect suicide cable, start generator. Finally, flip generator panel breakers to ON position. Genset now powers house, protected by it's own breakers, backfeeding through the garage breakers. This assumes you have 120/240 in your garage of course.
Of course this is not a legal or recommended procedure. But it would work well and has the advantage that the dryer type cord is very sturdy and unlikely to fall out by itself from vibration or being tripped on.
Tim
To set the record straight... Per Jens definition mine is a "Jesus cord" not a double jesus as stated earlier.
Sorry for any misunderstanding this may have caused. :-[
That makes mine a suicide setup and I think I will convert to the Jesus way. Dryer plugs are cheap and then it is ready to go.
Ok Jens,
For safety and clarity, lets use your definitions. I like your definitions. I thought I was suicidal but I have been saved!
My variation would then be a "Jesus Dryer Cord" . It's a much safer variation of the Double Jesus Cord.
Tim
TimSR2,
If one does not have a garage with 120/240, would it work to run the following setup....
TURN OFF HOUSE BREAKER...then.....
Generator --> Generator mounted panel with 2/20amp breakers ---> Jesus cord (one end to the Gen Panel) ----> Other end of the cord to the dryer outlet in the house.
Turn off all unnecessary loads, plug in the cable, Start the generator. ?
Veggie
Use the same technique as mine. Your cable from your generator breaker box to the Twist lock 30a female connector will be a lot longer probably. You may wish to make up a detachable extension cord with twist lock 120/240/30a on both ends. Male to female like any extension cord. This should be of 12/4 cabtire rubber armored cable. It's pretty expensive, as are the twist lock connectors. The dryer cords only come in 4 foot lengths so your (male to male) 'Jesus Dryer Cable' will be about 4 feet long regardless.
House dryer wiring is 10 or 12 ga in my area. They are breakered at 30a. Hypothetically one should be able to backfeed 7.5 kw peak into one. Nobody drys clothes during a power outage anyway, and very few produce enough power to power one, so it is an ideal inlet point.
It would be advisable to label your main breaker ( Mine says( UP TO OFF GRID!!) and get a lockout bar for it. It is extremely important that both sources are not on at the same time. It probably won't hurt your ST head but there are some pretty major safety and liability concerns here.
Quote from: Jens on September 28, 2009, 12:21:06 PM
Of course this assumes that the 2 20 amp breakers form a 220V system rather than a 2* 120V system.
I don't know if it is safe to assume that a generator head is 220V on a consumer duty generator. Easy to check out though if the manual doesn't specifically say. Point is, you need to bring neutral, ground and two hot lines which are 180 degrees out of phase to the house.
Jens
Perhaps you can help me determine if my Voltmaster unit is a 2* 120v system or can I pull a proper 240V from it.
It has the 20A, 240 Plug, but it would be nice to know that it can make true 240 power for the home if needed.
From what I can see, the 240vac connection should be acceptable for use with a jesus dryer cord.
Below are two graphics showing the electrics....
Any help would be appreciated.
Veggie
I've been an electrician in service & the construction industries for 11 years & worked on gensets in the rental industry for another 8 years & i don't think i've ever seen a 2*120 volt generator. unless you are refering to a 120 volt gen set mounted with two seperate 120 volt recepticals. It appears you have a 240 volt genset from your drawings & the fact that it has a 240 volt receptical.
Scott R.
Scott,
Have you ever seen anything like this on the 240v side of a generator?
My older 4Kw head has two strange plugs. I am wondering if it can be converted to a single standard 20A, L14-20R receptacle like my newer model of the same brand?
Veggie
Quote from: Jens on September 28, 2009, 04:29:23 PM
Oh and yes, you are good to go .... but of course you know it's illegal, dangerous and could possibly cause a black hole that sucks the entire universe into itself ..... right ?
Jens
I heard that the universe on the other side of the black hole has women who think Changfa owners are the sexiest men alive and Listeroid 6/1's go for $45 usd. ! ;D
veggie
Veggie,
in your schematic t2 and t3 tied together are your neutral. (white wire) T1 and T4 are your red and black. Now you are on 120/240, call it 110 / 220 if you like it is the same thing. 2@120 is 240v on a 4 wire generator!
Your green wire is your ground and should be bonded to the case of your genset housing or frame . Put in a ground rod if you have a stationary set especially important if you are on belt drive. (ever heard of a van de graaf generator? ) Some people bond it to the neutral. Everybody likes to argue this point. If I have no ground rod I bond it to neutral too. In any case your ground and neutral are bonded at your house main service as a matter of course.
Tim
Veggie ,
After reviewing the back of your 4 kw gen head I see the problem. You have a 220 volt connector there. It has only T1, T4 and GROUND. The center tap is not available for 110volt loads with this connector. You will have to change this out if you want to power 110 and/or 220 volt loads via the Dryer cable method. Reconnect it internally. Use a strain relief bushing to a length of 12/4 cabtire flex cable to a 120/240v 30A twistlock female connector. Use this wiring schedule T1 black T2/3 to white, T4 to red. Green to generator case. Remember 11/220 and 120/240 are the same thing! Just a different way of describing them. I use them interchangeably.
Tim
Jens,
The schematic is for my newer model with the 20A, L14-20R 240volt connector.
I think Tim is referring to my older model (Picture) when he describes rewiring the 240V side of the unit.
Veggie
Yup, Jens is right on this one. That would definitely be a 1.5 Jesus Dryer cord. Or maybe a Siamese Jesus Dryer Cord....
Tim
Quote from: veggie on September 28, 2009, 04:28:53 PM
Scott,
Have you ever seen anything like this on the 240v side of a generator?
My older 4Kw head has two strange plugs. I am wondering if it can be converted to a single standard 20A, L14-20R receptacle like my newer model of the same brand?
Veggie
Hello Veggie,
That is a standard 250 volt 15 amp rated double outlet. It is used for 240 volt power tools like my Delta Unisaw rated at 15 amps.
A 4K gen-head is rated to slightly over 16.5 amps @ 240 volts.
The reason they put that outlet on instead of a 240 @ 20 amp single outlet is because the 4K gen-head is not rated to handle a 240 volt, 20 amp load. And the manufacture did not want you to plug in a 240 Volt 20 amp load rated appliance or tool in the 4K gen-head.
I would stick with what is on the gen-head. I would also say you would be ok if that 240 @ 15 amp double outlet is fused to 15 amps.
Henry
Henry,
If I stay with the 240 volt, 15 amp rated double outlets, do you have any suggestions on how to connect it to a jesus cord, and in turn, to a dryer outlet ?
Veggie
PS: The funny thing is that my newer unit (same and also 4kw) make has a single 240V, 20 amp plug
Hello Veggie,
A Jesus cord is a topic that I would like to stay away from. It is dangerous and I hate to see anyone get hurt.
About your newer 4K gen-head. Looks like the manufacture decided to up the rating to 4000 continuous and 5000 surge. That is probably why the newer gen-head has a single 240 volt 20 amp outlet.
Do you still have your ST-5? If you need to tie into the house that would be the one I would use. It would have more surge than the other gen-heads. And it would be capable to run a 240 volt @ 20 amp continous.
Henry
Hi Veg,
looks like we all agree on the fact that you have 240 volt gen heads. If you decide to put the 240 volt twist lock in your 2Nd gen set just make sure you fuse/breaker it at 15 amps & you should have no problems. Last time i checked Blast Wholesale on e-bay sold the generator end bell for your unit for about $30.oo.
Scott R.
Thanks very much for your input everyone.
Most helpful !
Cheers,
Veggie
Quote from: hwew on September 28, 2009, 09:33:14 PM
Hello Veggie,
A Jesus cord is a topic that I would like to stay away from. It is dangerous and I hate to see anyone get hurt.
About your newer 4K gen-head. Looks like the manufacture decided to up the rating to 4000 continuous and 5000 surge. That is probably why the newer gen-head has a single 240 volt 20 amp outlet.
Do you still have your ST-5? If you need to tie into the house that would be the one I would use. It would have more surge than the other gen-heads. And it would be capable to run a 240 volt @ 20 amp continous.
Henry
Hi Henry,
I actually have a transfer switch, so the cord is not a concern.
My questions about fitting a cord was to enable me to convert the generator (the one with the funny 15 amp plugs) to a single 240v cable and standardize all my plugs. It enables me to use the genset for more applications. I was using the "jesus cord" term because it was already in use here in this thread. I got some good ideas from you and the others. Thanks.
Yes, I do still have the ST-5. I love it. ;)
Cheers,
Veggie
Since my house only has a 30 amp main, I used a three position switch. GRID _ OFF _ GENERATOR. You can't make a mistake like forgetting to disconnect the generator before connecting the grid or vice versa. It disconnects one before you can connect the other.
Posting here because i think it needs to be said , while #! the op was talking about an improvised situation and what to do it strikes me as strange that noone considers the suicide cord tripped on and live 220 on the end of it just to get you .
this is absurdly stupid akin to me saying here hold my beer and watch this ;D many times that has cost me a lump greater than i wanted at the least. Now i am just as backwoods as anybody here but survivability is the ultimate redneck trait and while loathe to admit it at least common sense must be an order . Now if the power were out on the homestead in missouri for say 2 weeks in 09 i would have
1) turned OFF the disconnect !!!
2) locked out the disconnect
3) wired twist lock to 10-3 well pump wire ( what redneck dont have a couple hundred foot of this around )
4) turned off ALL breakers
5) connect bare leads to fuse box
6) plug in twist lock
7) start gen and bring necessary circuits online one at a time
Not to be a safety nazi but i felt somewhere something safe should be stated here
now i go back to lurking
A little bird told me that before he moved off grid what he did was:
He made the equivalent of a transfer switch with a breaker box. The only difference was that the breakers weren't tied together, so one had to be careful to switch the mains off FIRST and then flip the genny on. And then of course the opposite when switching back. He did it this way for many years and only ever did it himself.
He also said that he is happy he lives off the grid now and doesn't need to worry about it, especially as the power never goes out now. :-)
Jonathan
My Midnight ePanel has a interlock breaker sliding cover, to only allow 1 pair on at a time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generator_interlock_kit many images on the web.
Quote from: veggie on September 27, 2009, 08:45:19 AM
Those poor buggers working on power line repairs after a long outage must be wondering when some guy will unexpectedly fire up his 10kw genny and plug it into an outlet, forgetting to shut off the mains, and back feed the dead wires he's working on.
Yeah, that's one of my favourite internet parroted hypothetical 10 million to 1 gloom and goom senerios.
The more you try to hypothesise the conditions which would need to be in place if you WANTED to make it happen, The more far fetched and unlikley it becomes.
Why is it always a power failure HAS to have people working on the lines? I only know enough about grid power supply to know that line breaks are the only cause of power failure. Then of course one has to presume that the generator is fired up after the line has been tested and that no Short line has been used which i am told here at least is standard procedure. Then of course the errant generator has to be capeable of energising many miles of line AND everything connected to it from all the neighbours and everyone else. I would think that the load just from refrigerators in one street would be enough to trip out or fry a generator when they all kicked in. But of course we must assume that the break dosen't occour in a neighbourhood to support the fable, the beckfeeding -will- happen when somoene dosen't have a neighbour for 50 miles or the other people connected between the break and the genny have nothing swwitched on. Yep, that's the most likley thing to happen in reality although Convinently people like to assume the line break is right outside the person who has the gennys house. Yeah, that dosen't increase the odds of likelyhood any does it? ::)
And of course after we get through with setting the scnerio just right so we can off this poor lineman that add up to about a 100 million to one shot, that seems too great to take any risk although fact proves you are in more danger of getting killed driving to work, we have a look at that most inconvinent internet hype killer, actual reports of the event happening. The US is a pretty big place so if this were anywhere near the sort of danger that it is made out to be, I assume there are hundreds of documented cases of this happening. I wouldn't know what to search for but surely with linemen being fried left right and centre as they surely must, loads of people must have links to it happening. I wonder what sort of percentage in the fatality of linemen, back feeding home generators score? I even wonder if it's happened once in the last 5, 10 or 50 years?
Yep, got to love the far fetched parroted fables of the internet that bear no semblance to reality and fact!
Well, I don't know how many get killed that way, but I have seen it happen. I live in a rural area where there are often multiple breaks when the power goes out. I have (in an extreme case) seen 17 separete break in the line between myself and the store, 5 miles away. As a volunteer firefighter, over the last 15 years I have seen two occasions where power was back-fed and caused HV to appear on downed lines. The linemen tell me that usually the wires wind up grounded and hence lose much of their power. The more breaks the more likely a substantial current can charge a section. So I can't speak to how often it is fatal but it certainly is real.
That said, I was a naughty boy for years in did use a non-interlocked system. There you are taking others lives in your hands, however remote. But I do the same thing every time I drive a car...
Jonathan
Au contrair Mr. Glort, I've had the pissed off lineman supervisor pounding on my front door screaming that my generator almost fried one of his lineman. My generator was running at the time. I insisted it was not back feeding into the mains and after reluctantly agreeing to pull the meter he found that the mains were still hot and my meter side showed no voltage. Whew I was off the hook.
What had happened is that the power company had shut off the power 2 houses from mine to do some work on the lines. In my case 2 houses was just over a mile from my house. After pulling the mains switch the lineman was going to work on the line and the supervisor reminded him to check the line before working. To the lineman's surprise it was still hot!
Well it seems a couple a years my dope growing former neighbor was stealing power from the utility co and when they found out they shut off one of his services. The other service was down by the well just past the 2nd house down the road. Well my genius neighbor bought a 1000' roll of 6/3 wire and ran it from the well service to the house. After the the fines were paid and the service was turned back on the breaker that was back feeding from the well was switch off and the house was sold. Somewhere along the line the new neighbor switch the breaker back on not knowing what it was for and the trap was set...
Quote from: Tom on July 20, 2014, 04:51:48 PMWell my genius neighbor bought a 1000' roll of 6/3 wire and ran it from the well service to the house.
So this wasn't back feeding from a generator at all then but rather another mains supply.
QuoteAs a volunteer firefighter, over the last 15 years I have seen two occasions where power was back-fed and caused HV to appear on downed lines
So was this actually back feeding from a generator that you confirmed or was the source like above or not actually confirmed?
I HAVE had a lineman ask if I was sure my Main breaker was off, and he did take my word for it. Other than that, I am still hopper cooled, and use a dryer cord and a welder plug.
As a result, I am limited to "Dire Emergency" use. And yes, I am aware of all the problems that COULD arise, thank you all for caring.
Ron.
Yup, in both cases it was a generator. It is easy to track it down out here, few houses and you can hear the genny. In one case it was a 10kW unit, and the other a small 2k ish. The small one was bogging and the owner was trying to figure out why. The large one was lighting up the circuit no problem. One case was obvious how it was connected and the the owner was simply clueless. The other was a bit of a mystery on an older ranch with lots of out buildings and ancient infrastructure. In that case the lineman pulled the meter.
So it really does happen.
Jonathan
I hear this all the time. Not enough time or money to install a proper interlocking transfer switch. As a utility worker it's frustrating and dangerous. Frustrating as no amount of explaining will make Bubba understand the double ended male cord does not make him smarter and sneakier than everybody else. To make it worse, usually into a three prong welder plug. Dangerous as some Bubba somewhere does eventually tie his generator backfed into the utility grid .
Simply put. If you are not using a proper inspected generator transfer switch. You sir are a utter and complete fool.Why do you think you do not have to follow the rules ::)? How do you think you are smarter than utility engineers, utility inspectors, utility workers and the writers of the National Electrical Code?
Get off your wallet and install a transfer switch.
Quote from: XYZER on September 27, 2009, 09:37:38 PM
Hypothetically of course.........To be common sense legal....maybe not UL or Insurance approved......I have a main disconnect under the meter that I can kill the grid to the farm for sure. I throw a lock on it and now the grid it is locked out! Some main panels have a lock and to me locking out the grid leaves it your business. I won't hurt someone on a pole just me! I then go out to the machine shed where my "oid" is and pull the cover off a sub main and have a cord wired up with a 20amp(15's are hard to find) 220 breaker. I snap in the breaker and connect the neutral and ground leave off the cover and turn off the breaker. Before all of this I have gone into the house and the shop and turned off all the breakers (my 6/1 won't run all of it!). Start my generator then go turn on what it can handle. I have to load share for sure but I can flush the toilet watch TV have lights pellet stove for heat refer for a cold one just not all at once! I'm sure it is not code but that is my way.......
Blatantly illegal and dangerous. Good luck getting insurance is anything ever happens. Do you have something that you can sell or able to borrow some $$$ for a proper transfer switch?
Hi Fellas. Back-Feeding is alive and well in this world, don't you worry about that! I am a high voltage operator in an industrial site for a living and the instances of dickh.....ds back-feeding low voltage through to 11kv tx's is pure frightening during shuts. This has instigated a system of allowing only registered gensets on site and anyone breaking that rule can expect to be looking for a new job instantly regardless of back-feeding or not. This back-feeding is one of the greatest fears of linemen and tradesmen. A moments inattention and forgetting to disconnect to the grid and ..................................
Quote from: vdubnut62 on July 21, 2014, 08:22:21 PM
I HAVE had a lineman ask if I was sure my Main breaker was off, and he did take my word for it. Other than that, I am still hopper cooled, and use a dryer cord and a welder plug.
As a result, I am limited to "Dire Emergency" use. And yes, I am aware of all the problems that COULD arise, thank you all for caring.
Ron.
Worse yet you have connected the neutral from the generator to the ground on the welder plug. Do you not understand the hazards ? Do you have any intention of soon installing a proper transfer switch or a breaker interlock? Or are you exempt from the law of the law and exempt from the laws of physics?
Quote from: TimSR2 on September 26, 2009, 11:39:53 PM
Hypothetically speaking of course.....There is a right way and a wrong way. Let's say you have a residential house and you have built this big dinosaur generator into your detached garage with some kind of contraband chinese generator head that may or may not have UL or CSA approval. You find yourself in a major power outage and you really would like to power up your house but you haven't got around to having a proper generator priority panel installed and your generator may not pass code. I guess you could just sit in the cold and dark and have all your food spoil. Or maybe there is another way that an educated person could overcome this problem? Come on, let's open up the big taboo subject! I'll stick my neck out a little here, it involves a set of large twist lock connectors and a Dryer cord.
Tim SR2
So you have managed to go 90% of the way but are not going to finish the job properly? Just obtain and install a transfer switch or an approved breaker interlock on the main panel.
Quote from: glort on July 19, 2014, 07:09:57 AM
Quote from: veggie on September 27, 2009, 08:45:19 AM
Those poor buggers working on power line repairs after a long outage must be wondering when some guy will unexpectedly fire up his 10kw genny and plug it into an outlet, forgetting to shut off the mains, and back feed the dead wires he's working on.
Yeah, that's one of my favourite internet parroted hypothetical 10 million to 1 gloom and goom senerios.
The more you try to hypothesise the conditions which would need to be in place if you WANTED to make it happen, The more far fetched and unlikley it becomes.
Why is it always a power failure HAS to have people working on the lines? I only know enough about grid power supply to know that line breaks are the only cause of power failure. Then of course one has to presume that the generator is fired up after the line has been tested and that no Short line has been used which i am told here at least is standard procedure. Then of course the errant generator has to be capeable of energising many miles of line AND everything connected to it from all the neighbours and everyone else. I would think that the load just from refrigerators in one street would be enough to trip out or fry a generator when they all kicked in. But of course we must assume that the break dosen't occour in a neighbourhood to support the fable, the beckfeeding -will- happen when somoene dosen't have a neighbour for 50 miles or the other people connected between the break and the genny have nothing swwitched on. Yep, that's the most likley thing to happen in reality although Convinently people like to assume the line break is right outside the person who has the gennys house. Yeah, that dosen't increase the odds of likelyhood any does it? ::)
And of course after we get through with setting the scnerio just right so we can off this poor lineman that add up to about a 100 million to one shot, that seems too great to take any risk although fact proves you are in more danger of getting killed driving to work, we have a look at that most inconvinent internet hype killer, actual reports of the event happening. The US is a pretty big place so if this were anywhere near the sort of danger that it is made out to be, I assume there are hundreds of documented cases of this happening. I wouldn't know what to search for but surely with linemen being fried left right and centre as they surely must, loads of people must have links to it happening. I wonder what sort of percentage in the fatality of linemen, back feeding home generators score? I even wonder if it's happened once in the last 5, 10 or 50 years?
Yep, got to love the far fetched parroted fables of the internet that bear no semblance to reality and fact!
Glort it's amazing what you will do to save a little bit of money and prove yourself so smart and more capable than the typical mortal. I hereby invite you down to the local utility shop and tell your entire story to the linesmen.
Quote from: buickanddeere on October 25, 2014, 04:41:17 PM
Glort it's amazing what you will do to save a little bit of money and prove yourself so smart and more capable than the typical mortal. I hereby invite you down to the local utility shop and tell your entire story to the linesmen.
WHat's truly amazing is it took you more than 3 months to have a bitch and whine about comments people made in July! Been away in La La land have we?? Feeling bored and just having a bit of a troll or perhaps you felt the world was ignoring you and you wanted to let us know you haven't done yourself in yet by posting some of your trademark snied replys? All of the above perhaps?
I suppose you were too keen to grandstand and preach your own holier than thou comments to people to realise that I'm not using one of these cables or trying to save any money with them at all. For the backfeeding I do, I have fully approved and widely used equipment for that express purpose and more than one of them. Why don't you come to see the linemen with me so you can tell me your thoughts in person? I'd be really interested to hear your comments in a face to face situation as things seem to get lost in the written word. You Tell the linemen all about what I have seeing you know so much and then we'll see what they say when I show them the pictures and fill them in on reality rather than flawed rantings from someone who needs to grow up.
If you pull your head out of your nether regions long enough and are able to actually comprehend what I said, You will see I was not advocating the use of these cables, I was just questioning the typical parroted mantras of their real and practical dangers.
Quote from: glort on October 30, 2014, 03:14:10 AM
Quote from: buickanddeere on October 25, 2014, 04:41:17 PM
Glort it's amazing what you will do to save a little bit of money and prove yourself so smart and more capable than the typical mortal. I hereby invite you down to the local utility shop and tell your entire story to the linesmen.
WHat's truly amazing is it took you more than 3 months to have a bitch and whine about comments people made in July! Been away in La La land have we?? Feeling bored and just having a bit of a troll or perhaps you felt the world was ignoring you and you wanted to let us know you haven't done yourself in yet by posting some of your trademark snied replys? All of the above perhaps?
I suppose you were too keen to grandstand and preach your own holier than thou comments to people to realise that I'm not using one of these cables or trying to save any money with them at all. For the backfeeding I do, I have fully approved and widely used equipment for that express purpose and more than one of them. Why don't you come to see the linemen with me so you can tell me your thoughts in person? I'd be really interested to hear your comments in a face to face situation as things seem to get lost in the written word. You Tell the linemen all about what I have seeing you know so much and then we'll see what they say when I show them the pictures and fill them in on reality rather than flawed rantings from someone who needs to grow up.
If you pull your head out of your nether regions long enough and are able to actually comprehend what I said, You will see I was not advocating the use of these cables, I was just questioning the typical parroted mantras of their real and practical dangers.
Says on my power utility paycheque that I work on that kind of equipment.