Ok I think I am in the market for a PMG for my 6/1 here is my question Georgia generator has 3.5kw and 6.5kw both are 650 bucks then George at utterpower has a 3kw for 699 with pulley and shipping both designs seem different.
Which one would you buy?
Utterpowers looks like a nicer unit, and well sealed. The Georgia generator unit 6.5 is rated at twice the output however. I went with the Georgia 6.5 unit as I didn't want to worry how much of a load I drew from one leg. In theory, I can pull all the 6/1 will provide on one leg without any concern for overloading. The Utterpower unit (conservatively) rated at only 3k will by its specs. only happily supply 1.5k per leg for an extended period of time. I often run heavily unevenly loaded legs (500 watts on one leg and 2700 on the other) and the generator doesn't seem to mind at all.
(Tom Osborne is GREAT to deal with by the way!)
Hope that helps.
George has none in stock and has no idea when any will be available.
Any other suggestions?
Wags
I like these PMA's. Good quility.
http://stores.ebay.com/Central-Georgia-Generator/_i.html?_fsub=823419012
Diesel Guy
George at www.utterpower.com has two different size PMG's. You can see both of them under my posts in the PMG section under Perkins/utterpower PMG.
flywheel
Quote from: flywheel on November 02, 2010, 09:36:37 PM
George at www.utterpower.com has two different size PMG's. You can see both of them under my posts in the PMG section under Perkins/utterpower PMG.
flywheel
I called George last week and he said out of stock until ?? (he was my first choice)
So, like my last post... what now?
Wags
Quote from: bschwartz on February 14, 2010, 05:49:06 PM
Utterpowers looks like a nicer unit, and well sealed. The Georgia generator unit 6.5 is rated at twice the output however. I went with the Georgia 6.5 unit as I didn't want to worry how much of a load I drew from one leg. In theory, I can pull all the 6/1 will provide on one leg without any concern for overloading. The Utterpower unit (conservatively) rated at only 3k will by its specs. only happily supply 1.5k per leg for an extended period of time. I often run heavily unevenly loaded legs (500 watts on one leg and 2700 on the other) and the generator doesn't seem to mind at all.
(Tom Osborne is GREAT to deal with by the way!)
Hope that helps.
How is this piece holding up? I have an 8/1. Should I still go with the 6.5 kw piece? Or can I get something bigger. Honestly, the 6.5 is probably large enough for my needs, so maybe slow down the 8/1 to conserve fuel?
Do you have a link to the one you purchased?
Thanks again.
Steve
Hi Steve,
The rule of thumb is two HP to one KW output. In much of the world engines are rated in KW rather than HP. Technically 1 HP = 0.745699872 kilowatts but I think most of the 6 HP Listers are driving 3 KW heads even though they pencil out to 4.4 KW.
Casey
the difference is the efficiency of the generator and its drive
so if you have 2hp or about 1.5kw mechanical and using the 2hp per kw electrical
you have about 1 / 1.5 or about 66% efficiency, however
in practice you will be close to 75%
so the reality is you probably can get 1 kw electrical out of each 1.75hp give or take.
the 2hp per kw electrical output is a rough rule of thumb that will put most any application in the ballpark.
so an 8/1 is good for about 4kw electrical, but probably will do closer to 4.5kw electrical in most cases, and maybe
a bit more in some very cases with very efficient generators and drive systems.
long and short of it, a 6.5kwatt head ought to be more than adequate for an 8/1, but might be on the edge if you want to
draw full power off of one winding.
one could always use a 4-5kva transformer and put both windings across the primaries at 240volts, and take all the engine
can deliver out the secondaries at 120volts,, and still leave the ability to get 240 available, just not at the same time of course.
might be overall a more efficient setup, depending on several factors, and ones ability to source a transformer at an affordable price.
bob g
Steve,
Re: "How is this piece holding up? "
It ran flawlessly for about 800 hours.
I started having voltage drop and came to an ugly conclusion.
It is a vented unit, and I was doing some welding and grinding nearby......
I suspect that the metal bits got sucked into the unit (powerful magnets you know) and are causing an issue. I have not opened up the unit to verify. I am current limping along on a ST-5 with it's own voltage issues.
Had I been more careful about the metal filings, I'm sure the PMG would still be performing beautifully. It ran quiet, and smoothly. Very stable.
So, what I am hearing is I can get the 6.5 KW gen head as long as I do not over load it. And the Georgia gen is ok??
Is that the link on ebay to buy?
Thanks
Steve
Quote from: wagspe208 on November 03, 2010, 10:57:00 AM
So, what I am hearing is I can get the 6.5 KW gen head as long as I do not over load it. And the Georgia gen is ok??
... and keep it in a clean environment! ie.. no welding or metal work done nearby
Yes, that it the link. I would highly recommend them. Tom Osborne it the best vendor I've ever worked with. He'll return calls, stock spare parts for what he sells etc.
Quote from: bschwartz on November 03, 2010, 07:24:43 AM
Steve,
Re: "How is this piece holding up? "
It ran flawlessly for about 800 hours.
I started having voltage drop and came to an ugly conclusion.
It is a vented unit, and I was doing some welding and grinding nearby......
I suspect that the metal bits got sucked into the unit (powerful magnets you know) and are causing an issue. I have not opened up the unit to verify. I am current limping along on a ST-5 with it's own voltage issues.
Had I been more careful about the metal filings, I'm sure the PMG would still be performing beautifully. It ran quiet, and smoothly. Very stable.
This is what Tom has up on ebay right now. It doesn't look vented. Is this the same unit as the one you have?
http://cgi.ebay.com/6-5-KW-Rare-Earth-Permanent-Magnet-Generator-Alternator-/160499729388?pt=BI_Generators&hash=item255e8783ec
Thanks, Geno
No, I have an older 3600RPM model. (I wish it were the newer 1800 version)
I have a few 6.5 KW PMA - 3,600 RPM models, and some 6.5 KW, 8 KW and 20 KW PMA - 1,800 RPM models and the 6.5 KW - 3,600 RPM models has vents on the bottom and the 6.5 KW, 8 KW and 20 KW models have vents on the lower, back side. All are vented and none are sealed like Utterpowers units.
Diesel Guy
Are you selling these, or you just have a way to many gen heads. ;D
Wags
It seems like the 1800 rpm piece is the way to go for many reasons.
Next question... are the PM pieces 2x better than the st type generators? (price is double +)
Wags
I don't just have way too many alternator heads, I have too many engines and projects as well. I'm just not smart enough to know when to quit. I'm sure nobody else has that problem here, now do they.
Diesel Guy
i certainly don't have that disease, and i don't know anyone else here that has it either!
geeesh, how can you live with yourself?
maybe you should spread the stuff around?
send it to me!
and get your life back man!
:)
bob g
Quote from: Diesel Guy on November 03, 2010, 10:24:03 PM
I don't just have way too many alternator heads, I have too many engines and projects as well. I'm just not smart enough to know when to quit. I'm sure nobody else has that problem here, now do they.
Diesel Guy
HEE HEE HEE!
Mobile Bob,
Your funny, I think everyone here has it, or we would of not have worked so hard on perfecting things and could of just went to Home Depot and purchaced a so called "Generator" there and call it a day.
What ever I have, it drives my wife nuts. What you want a new dress? I"mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, how about his nice alternator pulley I had custom made? How about that instead? I don't know, I can't figure her out.
Diesel Guy
They say the first step in getting better is to admit you have a problem. I'll see you guys at the meeting next week.... you know, the one that starts with.. Hi, I'm Randy and I have a diesel engine collecting problem..
I am very aware of this disease... But I have found a method to lessen the side effects it causes.
Its a relatively new treatment... I call it "OBAMANOMICS"!
Beleive me. This shit will slow down your purchases! ;D
Rob
P.S. the above statement was given for it's humor value only! and is by no means a reflection of anyone or anything that has ever existed!
Quote from: wagspe208 on November 03, 2010, 09:55:29 PM
It seems like the 1800 rpm piece is the way to go for many reasons.
Next question... are the PM pieces 2x better than the st type generators? (price is double +)
Wags
BUMP??
"Next question... are the PM pieces 2x better than the st type generators? (price is double +)
Wags"
Stable voltages, higher efficiency, no brushes, lighter
That sounds like a yes.
Thanks
Wags
Quote from: rl71459 on November 04, 2010, 10:07:42 AM
I am very aware of this disease... But I have found a method to lessen the side effects it causes.
Its a relatively new treatment... I call it "OBAMANOMICS"!
Beleive me. This shit will slow down your purchases! ;D
Rob
P.S. the above statement was given for it's humor value only! and is by no means a reflection of anyone or anything that has ever existed!
Where's Crumptie, shouldn't he be cryin' about this by now ???
sorry
I should not have posted that.
Rob
I'm not offended rob, most people would have a very hard time doing that. but the crumptater busts my chops everytime i say something he doesn't like. that's what my comment was about.
Scott R.
Quote from: lowspeedlife on November 04, 2010, 07:09:55 PM
I'm not offended rob, most people would have a very hard time doing that. but the crumptater busts my chops everytime i say something he doesn't like. that's what my comment was about.
Scott R.
By gosh thats right, I have not seen any posts from him in a while.
I went and just checked his last post it was back on august 24 and it contained this line "Health has not been good - I've spent over a month in bed"
Hope you are ok out there crumptie I miss getting chewed out by you. ;D ;D
Ok side tracked another thread bad bill bad ...................
Billswan
Checked crumptie's stats one more time this morning and noticed he has not been here since august 26.
I guess that probably says something.
Anyone know anything about him?
He was a moderator.................
Billswan
I just want to be sure I am on the right track here...
So, I have an 8/1. This means I should be able to pull 4kw.
Is there a disadvantage to getting a 7.5 KW gen? If I do not overload my usage... or meaning if I only use 4kw of power my engine will pull the gen, correct? Or put another way... a 4 kw generator and a 7.5 kw generator will take the same amount of HP to produce the 4kw??
(I am planning on updating to a twin in the future, and don't want to buy 2 gens if I don't have to)
Thanks for helping a new guy.
Wags
Quote from: wagspe208 on November 21, 2010, 08:19:44 PM
I just want to be sure I am on the right track here...
So, I have an 8/1. This means I should be able to pull 4kw.
Is there a disadvantage to getting a 7.5 KW gen? If I do not overload my usage... or meaning if I only use 4kw of power my engine will pull the gen, correct? Or put another way... a 4 kw generator and a 7.5 kw generator will take the same amount of HP to produce the 4kw??
(I am planning on updating to a twin in the future, and don't want to buy 2 gens if I don't have to)
Thanks for helping a new guy.
In theory, you'll lose a little bit of efficiency (alternators, like diesels, apparently like to be well loaded). On the other hand, you'll gain the ability to start hard-starting loads which take a spike of >4kw - the flywheels will cover that off - so long as your constant load is 4kW or less.
Personally, if I had an 8/1, I'd cheerfully run a 7.5kw gen head on it.
Losing some efficency on running a slightly larger gen-head can be heavily debated. I found when running a 12kw gen-head at 7.5kw it showed no loss in efficency. A matter of fact efficency might be better on a 12kw gen-head running it at 7.5kw than using an 7.5kw gen-head running it at full load.
Henry
Another advantage to having a larger gen head than the engine can drive fully loaded, is that you dont have to be so carefull not to smoke the gen by overloading one 110 leg of a center tapped 220 system.
Ah... I did not think about the start up loads and overloading. Thanks for the input. I will get the 7.5 kw piece. It gives me room to grow.
How do I check to see if the les are balanced? Just an amp meter after setup? Or calculate?
Thanks again.
Wags
Usually just calculating loads roughly. They dont need perfect balance though some generators give out with a very pronounced growl when only one leg is loaded. It seems in them the two poles producing a single 110 output happen to be 90 deg. to each other not at 180. B Swartz has a thread on finding the problem and reconnecting the leads in a more user friendly and quieter mode.
If I am pulling the full 5 KWs balanced load on my 10-1 reduced to about 9 hp at 900 rpm I dont need to worry and black exhaust smoke will tell me I am at the limit. If I was pulling 3 or 4KW from only a single leg it would be no load for the engine but would be exceeding the amperage limit of the one loaded winding.
To do over again, for the difference in price I would jump up one or two sizes in gen head
I was very happy with the ST-12 hooked up to an S195. I overloaded the S195 many times on purpose and never had the gen-head get noticibly warm. I feel it is best to oversize some. The generator head was quiet. No growning noise at all.
Henry
So everyone think the 7.5 from georgia gen is the way to go for me? Or am I missing something else?
Thanks
Wags
for an 8hp engine the st7.5 is about minimum i would consider, you might look into stepping up to an st10 or even an st12
which would be a bit of overkill however we have some evidence that would indicate that the st12 might be a percent or two
more efficient than an st7.5
so if the price for the larger unit is acceptable, you might consider getting the larger head
one thing for sure, you will never overpower an st10, or an st12 even if you loaded it all on one leg, with an 8hp engine.
bob g
I was looking at the PMG gen heads. I hear they have "cleaner power". Is that true? The st pieces are ceretainly cheaper. Are the PM pieces worth 2x the cost?
Here is what I was looking at.
http://cgi.ebay.com/6-5-KW-Rare-Earth-Permanent-Magnet-Generator-Alternator-/160499729388?pt=BI_Generators&hash=item255e8783ec
Wags
heck, wags, I run a 7.5 kw ST from a 6/1. The upfront cost difference was negligible and really the only difference in efficiency is keeping the slightly heavier 7.5 spinning.
As far as a PMG, look at Utterpower.com.
Quote from: wagspe208 on November 23, 2010, 12:18:04 AM
I was looking at the PMG gen heads. I hear they have "cleaner power". Is that true? The st pieces are ceretainly cheaper. Are the PM pieces worth 2x the cost?
Here is what I was looking at.
http://cgi.ebay.com/6-5-KW-Rare-Earth-Permanent-Magnet-Generator-Alternator-/160499729388?pt=BI_Generators&hash=item255e8783ec
Wags
The 6/1 and ST combination exhibits the infamous 5ish HZ incandescent light flicker, but this is the consequence of the 6/1 power stroke and not the ST. I would think the 6/1 and PMG combination would result in a similar situation, but I don't have one and can't confirm. Perhaps someone who has one can comment about this. Other than the incandescent light flicker which can be solved by using compact fluorescent lights, this "noisy ST power" runs everything for me quite well.
Like Mbryner suggested, I would look to Utterpower if considering a PMG. George has a good reputation with this gang.
I've run both, and I think the PMG has a cleaner output. The microwave doesn't buzz as much on the PMG, power output is a little higher, and voltages are quite stable. But.... flicker is only slightly better if at all, and everything from computers and TVs to refrigerators run just fine on the ST head. If the flicker bothers you, just use higher wattage bulbs. Yes they will suck up all your juice, but they don't flicker as much ;D
I contacted George about a month ago. He said he was out of them and he had no idea when he would be getting more in.
So, I am torn. PMG and more $$ but slight advantage, or ST and cheaper, run it and go.
Wags
I was just at George's yesterday. The one PMG he had there wasn't for sale, but it looked nice. Depends on how soon you need to get up and running. Utterpower is having trouble w/ some parts suppliers for PMG components (economy caused some of the suppliers to disappear) and they are having to re-source. Remember a ST head is adequate for almost everything and can be fixed easily.
Marcus
Give in and call Tom Osborne at Central Georgia Generator, you will never deal with a nicer fellow and he stocks damn near everything
you'll ever want for a generator.
http://www.centralgagenerator.com/
Ron
Quote from: vdubnut62 on November 23, 2010, 02:05:37 PM
Give in and call Tom Osborne at Central Georgia Generator, you will never deal with a nicer fellow and he stocks damn near everything
you'll ever want for a generator.
http://www.centralgagenerator.com/
Ron
I had actually contacted him through ebay. He was my guy if George did not have anything.
Thanks
Wags
IIRC George's PMG units are sealed and others are not. Once iron shavings contaminate the inside of a unit they are difficult to clean.
Tom, if you are careful (which I am probably not) where do the filings come from? I see the point.
Your sig says 1000 hours with a ST. Really? Any problems? What size? Would you recommend it over a PMG?
Wags
Well if you do any welding or grinding there is a good source. I've had my share of problems with the st5. Burned out diode on first heavy load. Broken wire on the armature and of course the obligatory bearing failure. All that was <250 hours, not a problem since then. The ST5 was only $199 though. A bearing change on a PMG could be challenging too.
IIRC George recommends that the PMG be returned to him for service. Apparently the magnets are strong enough to "remove" fingers!
I was advocating Tom Osborne for the ST type head, I have no experience with the PMG type.
Ron